25acp....Viable SD round...Well

As someone who has shot a lot of .25 acp in the past, and experimented with the caliber-rather than just reading about it and shooting it at a range, I can tell you that it's not exactly the "weak" caliber most think it is.
Maybe when shot out of rusted, oversized bores, but from a good gun, the 25 has adequate penetration and velocity.
 
I think "no less capable" is a bit of a stretch, except under the unique circumstances described in the link?
Some people are stopped by merely being shot, regardless of where the bullet strikes, and the .25 is as good as anything under those circumstances, too.
 
It's lethal, but it's still not a wise choice when there are so many superior options
A Youtube won't change that
 
Seems like most production mouse guns are at least .32 these days. I'm interested in those .32 mouseguns because they're even smaller than comparable pistols in .380. Can you find modern, production, .25 models that are even smaller than their .32 counterparts?

If so I think this thread offer some valuable food for thought if you're a compactness maximalist like myself.
 
No handgun is a death ray. All require CNS shots for an absolute sure stop. As long as the bullet gets there, it doesn't matter if it's 1/4 inch diameter or 2 inch diameter.
Bigger is better, but by how much?
 
Can you find modern, production, .25 models that are even smaller than their .32 counterparts?
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The only such pair that I can think of is the recently discontinued Beretta 21 (.25 Auto) and 3032 (.32 Auto). They are essentially the same size: 4.9-in long, 3.7-in high, and 1.1-in wide. The 3032 is a bit beefier and weighs 3 oz more (14.5 oz vs 11.5 oz). The only practical differences I can see, other than bullet diameter and penetration potential, is that with the 21 you get one additional round (8+1 vs 7+1) with half the recoil energy (0.7 ft•lb vs 1.6 ft•lb).

There's much to be said for a deep-concealment piece. Inexpensive, small caliber pocket guns were vilified as Saturday Night Specials, held responsible for a disproportional amount of gun crime, and targeted by prohibiting their importation in 1968. Such firearms, at least the ones that function well, deserve consideration.
 
Bigger is better, but by how much?
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By more than enough to make choosing a 25 foolish if you can carry anything bigger.

I really don't know why this discussion even keeps coming up other than boredom
 
ninjarealist said:
Can you find modern, production, .25 models that are even smaller than their .32 counterparts?
Click to expand...

PSA-25 compared to a Kel-Tec P32.

That's actually a Bauer in the pics, but the PSA-25 and Bauer are both copies of the Baby Browning.

http://www.precisionsmallarms.com/

photo1_zps6507972e.png


photo3_zpse4c66e8f.png


photo2_zps6242e577.png
 
ShootingTheBull410 does the best YouTube terminal ballistics tests. He does 5 shots per cartridge per standardized test condition -- bare calibrated gel and IWBA-heavily-clothed, calibrated gel. The IWBA ammo spec requires a maximum-specified penetration standard deviation, which is a measure of expansion consistency. To get a standard deviation requires shot replication. The IWBA suggests using 10 shots.
 
I agree, he makes good stuff as well. I don't much care for the "single-shot" gel tests, it doesn't tell me a whole lot and gives no comparison for consistency. no offense to those that do it, I know gel is expensive and YouTube vids take time and $$. but there seems to be enough room to do at least 3 shots in a gel block, with small-mid pistol calibers anyway
 
I'm thinking of getting a PSA-25 Baby Browning clone (very high quality) for ankle carry as backup to my EDC.

The load certainly did well in the gel tests. I'd probably opt for ball ammos still though. .25 ACP doesn't have much momentum, I'm sure that test would have far different results if the bullet had to go through a sternum or rib sized bone.
 
I really don't know why this discussion even keeps coming up other than boredom
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Because the conventional wisdom has erroneously deemed the .25 Auto as worthless.

It's by no means an optimal general service caliber, but it has been issued to military personnel in the not-too-distant past. But, for deep concealment a Baby Browning is optimal or close to it. I think one could be carried in a cigarette box in one's shirt pocket without anyone ever knowing as long as you don't walk through a metal detector. It also can serve as a credible backup gun, or fill a niche in a crowded glovebox or backpack.
 
I really want a poly 25 the size of the baby Browning...
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The polymer-framed Taurus .25 Auto, a DAO clone of the Beretta Bobcat, is not much bigger and has I think two more shots.

One of the PSA Baby Brownings would be great, but, oh my!, they are expensive.
 
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