.25 auto ? Yes! No regrets !

[mavracer]

I won't personally recommend a Taurus, too much bad blood for me. I'd either get the Beretta Bobcat or Tomcat, I'd also recommend a LCP.

 

[Sequins]

If you are willimg to let me fire XYZ round at you, because it's wimpy, maybe I'll stop trusting it. I'm scared of an SR22 personally, minimag reliability be damned.

 

[Snyper]

And there are numerous tales of people being shot with a .25 and dropping like a rock- just like ALL the other handgun calibers.

I don't recall seeing many tales of people being shot with larger calibers and not at least being aware of it.

But don't kid yourself; it's lethal.

BB guns can be "lethal"
That's not the point

 

[Dashunde]

The point is the guy wants to know what PT owners think of it.
He's carried the 25 for a long time, he's fine with his choice... move on.

From the post it seems he wants a different gun because the 950 is no longer in production. If it works fine and it's a familiar companion for 12 years then why bother getting another .25acp handgun to replace it?

Kinda what I was thinking.. maybe just wants something new? I doubt he'll really better the Beretta though.

 

[tallball]

My understanding is that the original Taurus PT22 and PT25 were Beretta designs made in the Beretta factory that Taurus purchased, just like the PT92 9mm. My PT22 has never malfunctioned.

FWIW, the Kel-Tec P3AT in 380 is roughly the same size and weight. You can find them for under $250, last time I checked.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

The Taurus design is not a Beretta design, it is a modified copy. The Taurus PT series guns are D/A only. The Beretta 2021 series is D/A-S/A.

 

[Tarcante]

Some follow up points:

1. My Jetfire is a 950 (not a 950b) and is still 100% reliable. Meaning: every time I pull the trigger, it shoots a bullet.

2. Why I am looking for another .25 auto handgun then? Well, If by any chance my Jetfire suffers a catastrophic or minor failure, I would like to have - that same day - another handgun in the same caliber that I can put into my right hand pocket.

Originally Posted by 44 AMP... I looked at the study. Interesting. But I think you are drawing the wrong conclusion from the numbers in the above quote.

About the Ellifritz study. The only thing I said, was that more people are shot with a .25 auto caliber bullet, than with a 32. or .44 magnum caliber handgun. (According to Ellifritz´s data)

I never said the .25 auto is a better caliber, because more people are shot with it, than with a .32 or .44 mag. caliber handgun.

44 AMP: The raw numbers might include a large percentage of crook on crook shootings, and this might skew the conclusions.

Au contraire, even in the crook vs crook scenario, you still have one individual that attacks and the other individual that defends itself.

44 AMP: Another thing you might consider about the numbers, and what might skew the conclusions from them is that the .25 auto was, for generations the "weapon of choice" for thugs, punks, gangbangers, and other low level criminal types,

hmmm.... Please show us the data that proves the .25 auto is - or was -, the caliber of choice for thugs, punks, gangbangers, and other low level criminal types. There have been for years, equally cheap handguns in .22lr, .32, 38 spl., etc. that punks, gang members and others criminals have used. I think people may have stereotypical views about some calibers.

44 AMP: He said he included hits anywhere on the body,

This is incorrect. The report includes a category that shows only hits to the head and torso. Also it has the percentage of people who were immediately stopped with one hit to the head or torso only.

44 AMP: Physical stops depend on YOU, and your ability to put a bullet where it will matter.

I agree.

Finally the Greg Ellifritz´s report is one of the best scientific studies I have read. One of his main findings was that:

°There wasn't much variation between calibers. Between the most common defensive calibers (.38, 9mm, .40, and .45) there was a spread of only eight percentage points. No matter what gun you are shooting, you can only expect a little more than half of the people you shoot to be immediately incapacitated by your first hit.°

Obviously I find this fact very interesting, since he (Ellifritz) has the numbers to prove it.

 

[tallball]

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but weren't the PT 22, 25, and 92 designs just the same as the Berettas, but diverged a bit over the years?

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Finally the Greg Ellifritz´s report is one of the best scientific studies I have read....

Except you apparently didn't read the entire study. The .25 ACP has the second highest failure to incapacitate rate and a considerably higher failure rate than the more commonly recommended self defense cartridges:

As Ellifitz explains (emphasis added):

...Take a look at two numbers: the percentage of people who did not stop (no matter how many rounds were fired into them) and the one-shot-stop percentage. The lower caliber rounds (.22, .25, .32) had a failure rate that was roughly double that of the higher caliber rounds. The one-shot-stop percentage (where I considered all hits, anywhere on the body) trended generally higher as the round gets more powerful. This tells us a couple of things...

In a certain (fairly high) percentage of shootings, people stop their aggressive actions after being hit with one round regardless of caliber or shot placement. These people are likely NOT physically incapacitated by the bullet. They just don't want to be shot anymore and give up! Call it a psychological stop if you will. Any bullet or caliber combination will likely yield similar results in those cases. And fortunately for us, there are a lot of these "psychological stops" occurring. The problem we have is when we don't get a psychological stop. If our attacker fights through the pain and continues to victimize us, we might want a round that causes the most damage possible. In essence, we are relying on a "physical stop" rather than a "psychological" one. In order to physically force someone to stop their violent actions we need to either hit him in the Central Nervous System (brain or upper spine) or cause enough bleeding that he becomes unconscious. The more powerful rounds look to be better at doing this....

 

[Dashunde]

Its no surprise that the small calibers are north of 30%, but several other numbers caught my attention:
- .380 betters 38sp and lags behind 9mm & 40 by just a few points.
- 9mm & 40 both beat the 45acp
- The 357 equals the rifle and beats the shotgun and 44mag.

I wonder where 357Sig would land?

Overall, it starts to paint a picture that velocity is king, more important than projectile weight or diameter.