.25-06 Bullet selection

dahermit said:
Although I never had, or used a 25-06 on deer here in Michigan, years ago I shot a whole lot of them with a .257 Roberts with good results. Reading my old log-book notes from back then (pre-1986), I used 117 grain Sierra Boat Tails over 47 grains of H205 (it was in an early Ruger M77 with excessive free-bore so I don't know how safe that load would be in any other gun) with a Federal Match Primer resulting in under one-inch groups.

I never found the need for any premium bullets...cup and draw standard bullets always produced a pass-through shot with very quick put downs. That begs the question for me: Why use exotic, premium bullets when the old cup and draw bullets worked so well? More expensive is not always "better".
Click to expand...
For plinking, I agree that any bullet will do. I shoot 3 or 4 deer a year, Whether I shoot a $.25 or $.68 bullet to harvest those deer is in the grand scheme of things not really significant. I can usually work up a load, be zeroed, and have my dope sheet to 400 yds in less than 30 rounds. (Thats assuming it takes 4 or 5 loads to be accuracy happy) I had my 6 5x300 Wby ready to go to 1000 in less than 20 shots. (First load I tried shot same ragged hole at 100)
 
reynolds357 said:
For plinking, I agree that any bullet will do. I shoot 3 or 4 deer a year, Whether I shoot a $.25 or $.68 bullet to harvest those deer is in the grand scheme of things not really significant. I can usually work up a load, be zeroed, and have my dope sheet to 400 yds in less than 30 rounds. (Thats assuming it takes 4 or 5 loads to be accuracy happy) I had my 6 5x300 Wby ready to go to 1000 in less than 20 shots. (First load I tried shot same ragged hole at 100)
Click to expand...
It was the performance on deer (complete penetration, quick drops) that I was referring to, not the price of the bullets as a factor.
 
dahermit said:
It was the performance on deer (complete penetration, quick drops) that I was referring to, not the price of the bullets as a factor.
Click to expand...
To get the pass through performance you mention, with a cup and core bullet in .25-06, I would think you would have to be in the heavy for caliber range of bullets. Dropping a .25-06 to under 3300 fps, imo, neuters it.
 
reynolds357 said:
To get the pass through performance you mention, with a cup and core bullet in .25-06, I would think you would have to be in the heavy for caliber range of bullets. Dropping a .25-06 to under 3300 fps, imo, neuters it.
Click to expand...
According to you, "I used Nosler Ballistic tips and had aweful performance. No penetration.", what you were using was not working. On the other hand, what I used in my Roberts, was working (A.K.A. "performing"). So, I do not understand why you would say that lowering your velocity would be a problem. Do you just want the satisfaction of shooting a .25 caliber bullet at 3300 or do you want to have good performance on deer?
 
Last edited:
dahermit said:
According to you, I used Nosler Ballistic tips and had aweful performance. No penetration.", what you were using was not working. On the other hand, what I used in my Roberts, was working (A.K.A. "performing"). So, I do not understand why you would say that lowering your velocity would be a problem. Do you just want the satisfaction of shooting a .25 caliber bullet at 3300 or do you want to have good performance on deer?
Click to expand...
I want to have a bullet that fully utilizes the potential of the .25-06.
I think awful performance due to under penetration was the well deserved, well earned, reputation of the Ballistic Tip prior to changes made to it to correct the problem.
 
As the old saying goes "You cannot have two masters."

(1.) Getting good performance on deer (quick, clean kills) or, (2.) achieving the potential of a 25-06 at 3300 on deer.

Back in the day when I was seeking number 1, I found that my best results were from the intermediate cartridges (three based on the 7x57 Mauser case) shooting bullets at modest velocities.

One very fast kill I remember involved using a custom 7x57 with a 120 grain varmint bullet at about 2700 fps. (estimated). The bullet entered near the left hip, angled toward the right shoulder and came to rest under the skin. The deer dropped so fast that I thought I had missed him...could not figure out why I did not see him run off. When I went to where I had last seen him, to my surprise, he was laying where I had seen him. Upon post mortem at home, I found the bullet...a perfect "mushroom".

Along with several kills with the .257 Roberts, I had several with a Browning B78 in 6mm Remington using a 87 grain Hornady varmint bullet (no cannelure). My theory in those days was, that the deer's ribcage being so thin, by using a varmint bullet, the bullet (in theory) would "blow-up" and shower the vitals with bits of bullet resulting in a fast kill. However, typically on broadside shots, I found at post-mortem that the bullets shed their jackets but the core would exit the off side anyway producing an almost instant kill. So, my theory proved wrong, but it worked so well that I continued using that combo for some time.

My point being, that sometimes we make assumptions about bullet performance and learn through experience that our assumptions were wrong.

If you wish to continue to experiment with a 25-06 (I am not a fan), go right ahead...that is what being a firearm enthusiast is all about...the fun of experimenting. But if your primary purpose is to cleanly take deer, you may want to experiment with some cartridges with less capacity (7x57, .257 Roberts, 7mm-08, .260, etc.) and less velocity and standard cup-and draw bullets. Nevertheless, it is up to you. As long as you are having fun, go for it.
 
dahermit said:
As the old saying goes "You cannot have two masters."

(1.) Getting good performance on deer (quick, clean kills) or, (2.) achieving the potential of a 25-06 at 3300 on deer.

Back in the day when I was seeking number 1, I found that my best results were from the intermediate cartridges (three based on the 7x57 Mauser case) shooting bullets at modest velocities.

One very fast kill I remember involved using a custom 7x57 with a 120 grain varmint bullet at about 2700 fps. (estimated). The bullet entered near the left hip, angled toward the right shoulder and came to rest under the skin. The deer dropped so fast that I thought I had missed him...could not figure out why I did not see him run off. When I went to where I had last seen him, to my surprise, he was laying where I had seen him. Upon post mortem at home, I found the bullet...a perfect "mushroom".

Along with several kills with the .257 Roberts, I had several with a Browning B78 in 6mm Remington using a 87 grain Hornady varmint bullet (no cannelure). My theory in those days was, that the deer's ribcage being so thin, by using a varmint bullet, the bullet (in theory) would "blow-up" and shower the vitals with bits of bullet resulting in a fast kill. However, typically on broadside shots, I found at post-mortem that the bullets shed their jackets but the core would exit the off side anyway producing an almost instant kill. So, my theory proved wrong, but it worked so well that I continued using that combo for some time.

My point being, that sometimes we make assumptions about bullet performance and learn through experience that our assumptions were wrong.

If you wish to continue to experiment with a 25-06 (I am not a fan), go right ahead...that is what being a firearm enthusiast is all about...the fun of experimenting. But if your primary purpose is to cleanly take deer, you may want to experiment with some cartridges with less capacity (7x57, .257 Roberts, 7mm-08, .260, etc.) and less velocity and standard cup-and draw bullets. Nevertheless, it is up to you. As long as you are having fun, go for it.
Click to expand...
I have killed many deer with .257 Roy. You can have speed and penetration.
 
I killed a few mulies with a 25-06 using Nosler Ballistic tips. I don't recall the load, max load of IMR4831 under the 100 gr. BT. Velocity was close to 3300 fps. One deer was a nice mature 4x4 mulie at 140 yards or thereabouts. In one side out the other, left about a silver dollar size exit hole. DRT. Another was a big mulie doe under 100 yards. Same deal. She did a 360 and fell. Exit was about the same as the buck. The velocity of the bullet that took the doe was probably around 3100 or so at impact. If I still used that gun it would be shooting 100 gr. Ballistic Tips. At my altitude, the bullet at 400 yards supposedly has 1450 ft.lbs. of energy. In my opinion there isn't a better cartridge for deer than that old 25-06.
 
I killed a few mulies with a 25-06 using Nosler Ballistic tips. I don't recall the load, max load of IMR4831 under the 100 gr. BT. Velocity was close to 3300 fps. One deer was a nice mature 4x4 mulie at 140 yards or thereabouts. In one side out the other, left about a silver dollar size exit hole. DRT.
Click to expand...
That is exactly what I have witnessed with kills out to 425 yards, with various cartridges, using Ballistic Tips. ...The "Hunting" variety, anyway.
Brutal impact, expansion, and, unfortunately, fragmentation and expansion; and then the tough base sails on through for a large exit wound.

The Ballistic Tip "Varmint", however...
That one may fail to perform on big game.
And, under the right circumstances, might fail to penetrate well.

Ballistic Tip Hunting ... I've never seen a failure. Good, solid, quick kills, with good exits.

--Coming back to these two (and a half) sentences above, now; having typed the entirety of this reply, I cannot remember a single Ballistic Tip "Hunting" kill that was not a "DRT" / instant "lights out".--


I've seen animals go down to the "simplest" of projectiles, with bullet technology dating back to the 1890s.
But the only failures to penetrate to vitals that I've ever witnessed first-hand were with varmint bullets. (Or bullets that passed through another animal first. ...But that's another story. :rolleyes:)

Case in point:
I watched a good friend shoot a pronghorn antelope - arguably the most fragile big game species in North America - in the top of the rump, from an elevated position, with a Speer 100 gr hollow point, launched at about 3,300 fps in .270 Win. Approximately 150 yard impact.

It blew up. Most fragments destroyed the top of that rear quarter, with a few passing into the rectum. But NONE of them made it through the other side of the rectum. The antelope, as we witnessed at the time and discovered during cleaning, literally pooped out the fragments that made it to the rectum, while it was running.

We're talking about 4-6 inches of penetration, max.

It took a running heart shot that also broke both shoulders (by yours truly ;)) to bring that animal down in a humane manner.

Coincidentally, my kill shot was with a .270 Win 130 gr Remington Core-Lokt ... arguably bullet technology from the 1890s.



.


(The shooter with the 100 gr HP made some mistakes. He knows it. He regrets it. He will never attempt such again. But, at the time, he thought his "coyote load" might be good enough for a heart shot. ...He just didn't lead the running animal enough. :rolleyes: I don't hold it against him. He hates himself enough for the decision. But it's a very good example of why "varmint" bullets are not a suitable replacement for "hunting" bullets.)
 
One one thing I found to be the 25-06 it has many accuracy sweet spot in its charging's. Quite similar to the outstanding 270 win in accuracy but capable of much higher velocities if wanting.

Just my opinion.
Being a firm believer any bullet caliber lesser than 30 cal if it can't churn up 3200 fps at muzzle it isn't worth the effort to tote it afield. As no matter how good the shot was placed no matter the distance. There's a better than even chance its shooter will have to walk a unexpected distance to retrieve his quarry.

My
25-06 100 gr. 57.3_gr {barely bumping} 3500 fps at muzzle.
270 win 130 gr. 57.0_gr 3200 fps at muzzle.
In some circles of shooters the 25-06's reputation "a poor mans 257 Weatherby"
 
Regarding what Frankenmauser said regarding shooting deer with Nosler BTs, I’ve not seen the DRT effect often. It is my bullet of choice (the hunting version), and I’m a lung shooter. They always die, but they do run a short ways almost always. We’re talking over 100 deer but less than 200 with that bullet. Brutal expansion is also what I have seen, and I almost always get a good blood trail.

Anyway, for a 25-06, I’d certainly consider using a Nosler BT.
 
FrankenMauser said:
That is exactly what I have witnessed with kills out to 425 yards, with various cartridges, using Ballistic Tips. ...The "Hunting" variety, anyway.
Brutal impact, expansion, and, unfortunately, fragmentation and expansion; and then the tough base sails on through for a large exit wound.

The Ballistic Tip "Varmint", however...
That one may fail to perform on big game.
And, under the right circumstances, might fail to penetrate well.

Ballistic Tip Hunting ... I've never seen a failure. Good, solid, quick kills, with good exits.

--Coming back to these two (and a half) sentences above, now; having typed the entirety of this reply, I cannot remember a single Ballistic Tip "Hunting" kill that was not a "DRT" / instant "lights out".--


I've seen animals go down to the "simplest" of projectiles, with bullet technology dating back to the 1890s.
But the only failures to penetrate to vitals that I've ever witnessed first-hand were with varmint bullets. (Or bullets that passed through another animal first. ...But that's another story. :rolleyes:)

Case in point:
I watched a good friend shoot a pronghorn antelope - arguably the most fragile big game species in North America - in the top of the rump, from an elevated position, with a Speer 100 gr hollow point, launched at about 3,300 fps in .270 Win. Approximately 150 yard impact.

It blew up. Most fragments destroyed the top of that rear quarter, with a few passing into the rectum. But NONE of them made it through the other side of the rectum. The antelope, as we witnessed at the time and discovered during cleaning, literally pooped out the fragments that made it to the rectum, while it was running.

We're talking about 4-6 inches of penetration, max.

It took a running heart shot that also broke both shoulders (by yours truly ;)) to bring that animal down in a humane manner.

Coincidentally, my kill shot was with a .270 Win 130 gr Remington Core-Lokt ... arguably bullet technology from the 1890s.



.


(The shooter with the 100 gr HP made some mistakes. He knows it. He regrets it. He will never attempt such again. But, at the time, he thought his "coyote load" might be good enough for a heart shot. ...He just didn't lead the running animal enough. :rolleyes: I don't hold it against him. He hates himself enough for the decision. But it's a very good example of why "varmint" bullets are not a suitable replacement for "hunting" bullets.)
Click to expand...
The ballistic tips I shot in the .25-06 were the originals. Not a tough bullet. I am sure the new ones are better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top