25-06 bullet & powder choice
- Thread starter 308Loader
- Start date
I have those 117's loaded and ready to test. I wonder why they decided to stop production o that bullet when HP's are available from Berger and Sierra (and. BTW, did not shoot as well in my rifle).
You should start your own thread. You will get lots of comments. Mine being, I'd like to know how the 117's performed. I couldn't get them to shoot worth a darn.
You should start your own thread. You will get lots of comments. Mine being, I'd like to know how the 117's performed. I couldn't get them to shoot worth a darn.
being a "break barrel" or breach loading single shot I heard that I should stay at the lower velocity's, any one know if that is true?
An important factor in reloading is knowing the pressure ratings of your specific firearm. If it doesn't state it in the manual ask the manufacturer.
You can find anything you want to know on the internet in the exact form you want it to be in. Doesn't make it fact, just someone's opinion that could be pure conjecture or based on empirical data and testing.
I researched and know the pressure ratings on all my guns. I advise you to do the same.
An important factor in reloading is knowing the pressure ratings of your specific firearm. If it doesn't state it in the manual ask the manufacturer.
You can find anything you want to know on the internet in the exact form you want it to be in. Doesn't make it fact, just someone's opinion that could be pure conjecture or based on empirical data and testing.
I researched and know the pressure ratings on all my guns. I advise you to do the same.
I don't own a break action centerfire.I mostly work with bolt rifles and AR's
A friend had a TC Contender 14 in 7x30 waters.
I know someone else with a T/C rifle in 338 Win mag.
They are subject to some springing.
The result is fairly short brass life.
With actual Federal 7-30Waters headstamp brass,head separations at about 4 loadings,IIRC. Complex topic,many variables.I don't want to write that much.
Nearly all 25-06's are in bolt actions and loaded accordingly.I suggest you settle for a small percentage less than factory load pressure/velocity.
At least until you develop a log of brass life.I suggest starting a fresh lot of virgin brass at a load that seems promising.
You will do some work determining exactly what shoulder setback to use.
That's another thread.
With minimum head clearance on your brass,allowing reliable lockup,
I suggest you do a 100 % paper clip test on your brass feeling for stretch ring.
Keep records.
Careful sizing will help,but receiver stretch is independent of that.
Your results will help you decide where the tradeoff between brass life and pressure is.
Don't be surprised if you find stretch rings at 3 or 4 loadings. When you find them with the probe,hacksaw the case lengthwise and see what is happening.
Your experience and data willgive you the best answer.
A friend had a TC Contender 14 in 7x30 waters.
I know someone else with a T/C rifle in 338 Win mag.
They are subject to some springing.
The result is fairly short brass life.
With actual Federal 7-30Waters headstamp brass,head separations at about 4 loadings,IIRC. Complex topic,many variables.I don't want to write that much.
Nearly all 25-06's are in bolt actions and loaded accordingly.I suggest you settle for a small percentage less than factory load pressure/velocity.
At least until you develop a log of brass life.I suggest starting a fresh lot of virgin brass at a load that seems promising.
You will do some work determining exactly what shoulder setback to use.
That's another thread.
With minimum head clearance on your brass,allowing reliable lockup,
I suggest you do a 100 % paper clip test on your brass feeling for stretch ring.
Keep records.
Careful sizing will help,but receiver stretch is independent of that.
Your results will help you decide where the tradeoff between brass life and pressure is.
Don't be surprised if you find stretch rings at 3 or 4 loadings. When you find them with the probe,hacksaw the case lengthwise and see what is happening.
Your experience and data willgive you the best answer.
muzzleblast...
New member
I've had a Ruger M77 .25-06 for a few decades. It likes the Speer 100 grain hot core with a healthy dose of IMR4350. Deer don't like the combo so much. 
308loader, maybe Hornady just didn't test H1000. The Hodgdon website lists H1000 with the 25-06 but with a Nosler 100gr bullet. If you try it start at the low end for sure and work it up.http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
From a list of 149 powders the relative burn rates of a few are as follows, from fast to slow:
IMR4350 #115
H4350 #117
Hybrid 100V #121
H4831 & H4831sc #128
IMR 7828 #135
H1000 #140
Retumbo #142
These are not ABSOLUTE burn rates, just approximate, to give you some idea how they compare to each other. I think generally you'll find a faster powder uses less charge than a slower powder because the pressure peaks more quickly. You'll get a higher velocity with a slower powder. A suggestion I saw years ago was use a powder that fills most of the case. One way to check it is to resize a case, put the dead primer back in. Weigh the case. Then fill it with water to the top of the neck, weigh it again. Seat your desired bullet, displacing water. Weigh it again. From the seated bullet weight, subtract the weight of the bullet and the weight of the empty case. That should leave you with the volume of water that is left in the case after you seat the bullet. Multiply that by 85% and that is the rough weight of any powder you want to load in that case that will occupy most of the case below the bullet.
From a list of 149 powders the relative burn rates of a few are as follows, from fast to slow:
IMR4350 #115
H4350 #117
Hybrid 100V #121
H4831 & H4831sc #128
IMR 7828 #135
H1000 #140
Retumbo #142
These are not ABSOLUTE burn rates, just approximate, to give you some idea how they compare to each other. I think generally you'll find a faster powder uses less charge than a slower powder because the pressure peaks more quickly. You'll get a higher velocity with a slower powder. A suggestion I saw years ago was use a powder that fills most of the case. One way to check it is to resize a case, put the dead primer back in. Weigh the case. Then fill it with water to the top of the neck, weigh it again. Seat your desired bullet, displacing water. Weigh it again. From the seated bullet weight, subtract the weight of the bullet and the weight of the empty case. That should leave you with the volume of water that is left in the case after you seat the bullet. Multiply that by 85% and that is the rough weight of any powder you want to load in that case that will occupy most of the case below the bullet.
Rifletom and flashhole, here are the 117gr results; I didn't think it would be worth a whole new thread.
Now, there are proponents of 10-shot groups in order to validate results. But a recent communication with Craig Boddington gave me advice that made sense. Load 6 test rounds and shoot 2 rounds of 3. If you're loading for hunting that makes sense because one rarely shoots more than 3 shots (or should rarely....). In this case I loaded 5, shot 3, went to a different rifle and eventually worked back to the first and shot 2 more at the same target. All at 100 yards:
The best load - in a Hart 26" barrel, .270 converted to 25-06 was Hornady 117gr SPIRE seated 0.015" from the rifling with 58.0gr of H1000, CCI250 primer. 5 shots measured 0.743"
I only shot 3 of the Hornady 117gr SST, with EXACTLY the same data as above, because 3 grouped at 1.243"-I didn't want to waste the other two.
The EXACT same data with a Sierra 117gr spitzer gave a group of 0.493" with the first 3 shots, and when I returned later for the last two, the group opened to 1.368". I'm thinking maybe I should have cleaned the barrel a bit because I had shot some 120gr a well and all told, this was over 20 rounds fired.
This may interest someone. I have a Browning 7mmRem Mag with a BOSS. For those not familiar, you dial the BOSS to tune the barrel vibrations. Rather than experimenting with multiple loads, you use one load and change the BOSS. With H4831, a Hornady162gr spire and the BOSS set at 7.4 I got a 4-shot group that measured 0.841". The BOSS setting had previously been 6.0 and the groups were over 1.0". I changed the BOSS to 7.5 and a 4-shot group shrank to 0.5285." It's pretty cool- as you change the BOSS the groups change. You can watch them go large to small and large again as you continue to dial the setting.
Now, there are proponents of 10-shot groups in order to validate results. But a recent communication with Craig Boddington gave me advice that made sense. Load 6 test rounds and shoot 2 rounds of 3. If you're loading for hunting that makes sense because one rarely shoots more than 3 shots (or should rarely....). In this case I loaded 5, shot 3, went to a different rifle and eventually worked back to the first and shot 2 more at the same target. All at 100 yards:
The best load - in a Hart 26" barrel, .270 converted to 25-06 was Hornady 117gr SPIRE seated 0.015" from the rifling with 58.0gr of H1000, CCI250 primer. 5 shots measured 0.743"
I only shot 3 of the Hornady 117gr SST, with EXACTLY the same data as above, because 3 grouped at 1.243"-I didn't want to waste the other two.
The EXACT same data with a Sierra 117gr spitzer gave a group of 0.493" with the first 3 shots, and when I returned later for the last two, the group opened to 1.368". I'm thinking maybe I should have cleaned the barrel a bit because I had shot some 120gr a well and all told, this was over 20 rounds fired.
This may interest someone. I have a Browning 7mmRem Mag with a BOSS. For those not familiar, you dial the BOSS to tune the barrel vibrations. Rather than experimenting with multiple loads, you use one load and change the BOSS. With H4831, a Hornady162gr spire and the BOSS set at 7.4 I got a 4-shot group that measured 0.841". The BOSS setting had previously been 6.0 and the groups were over 1.0". I changed the BOSS to 7.5 and a 4-shot group shrank to 0.5285." It's pretty cool- as you change the BOSS the groups change. You can watch them go large to small and large again as you continue to dial the setting.
cdoc42, thanks for suggesting the h1000. Shot some test loads today, looks promising! load data right off the website shows start for 75gr Amax at 58.0gr 3135fps. Shot 10 at 50yrds and made nice cloverleaf's. going to load another 10 at that charge weight and then run a ladder test at 100yrds next weekend. what increments would you suggest for the ladder test? website shows start at 58gr, max at 62gr, 4gr spread. They show that 62 would be a compressed load. 1/2 gr increments too much? What I'm after with this weight bullet is accuracy out to 200m and maybe a good varmint load at 100+ yrds. .2 gr increments? I'm sure 75gr at 3,100fps-mv would smoke a woodchuck, or p-dog so I guess I don't see the need for 3,339fps.
98 220 swift
New member
I have always had better luck with slower powders in the 25-06. IMR 7828 and RE25 are my go to powders. I also use heavy bullets. One rifle likes the 117 sierra the other likes 115 gr ballistic tips. I had a rifle a few years back with a 1-12" twist. It liked light bullets I used a 75 gr vmax with 4064.
SixShooterBP
New member
Retumbo and 115gr BT is my go to.
Don Fischer
New member
I think what you'll find in the end is what shoot's best out of your rifle is what shoots best! That take's a bit of experimenting. I read somewhere years ago that big case's did best on powder that would fill the case, I think it was 80% maybe it was 85% min, don't recall anymore.
Haven't loaded for my 25-06 in several years but favorite powder's were IMR 4350 and RL22. I would think either of the 4831's would work also. I never tried either because I had a load worked up that satisfied me. Large case for bore size calls for a slow powder in my world.
Haven't loaded for my 25-06 in several years but favorite powder's were IMR 4350 and RL22. I would think either of the 4831's would work also. I never tried either because I had a load worked up that satisfied me. Large case for bore size calls for a slow powder in my world.
603Country
New member
Just to say it, since I don't think anyone else did, don't interchange powder charges with H4831 and IMR4831. The IMR is faster. How do I know that? Welllll, I just do. Leave it at that.