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25-06 22" Barrel Length Issue
- Thread starter rockerpanels
- Start date
steveNChunter
New member
I'd be willing to bet, if you were to chrono a 22" 25-06 vs. a 22" .257 Roberts+P, both using max loads with equal bullet weight, there would be very little difference in velocity. The main difference would probably be less muzzle blast and noise from the Roberts.
Probably not far from true, and if you took those same conditions and used a 28'' barrel for both, I'd bet the 25-06 would be outpacing the .257 Rob +P, by a good margin. It has a lot to do with powder and burn efficiency. If you have two cartridges, one which holds more powder in an equal diameter bore, but don't have sufficient barrel length to burn the extra powder, then more of it burns outside the barrel, which equates to more 'muzzle blast'I'd be willing to bet, if you were to chrono a 22" 25-06 vs. a 22" .257 Roberts+P, both using max loads with equal bullet weight, there would be very little difference in velocity. The main difference would probably be less muzzle blast and noise from the Roberts.
All of that 'blast' is wasted energy, which would've likely been turned into velocity, if the barrel were longer.
@JDOxO: THe .25-'06 might not outpace the roberts by that much.
I have a .257 roberts, Ruger 1-B with a 26 inch barrel. With slow powders, that longer barrel will pretty much duplicate factory velocity claims for the .25-'06. If the factory velocities were measured from a 24 inch barrel, then it would appear that:
a .257 rbts + 2 inches of barrel = a .25-'06.
As a side note, I bet the .257 roberts necked up to 7mm would be a great cartridge. I guess that wildcat would be called the .284-.257 roberts?
L. Hammon
I have a .257 roberts, Ruger 1-B with a 26 inch barrel. With slow powders, that longer barrel will pretty much duplicate factory velocity claims for the .25-'06. If the factory velocities were measured from a 24 inch barrel, then it would appear that:
a .257 rbts + 2 inches of barrel = a .25-'06.
As a side note, I bet the .257 roberts necked up to 7mm would be a great cartridge. I guess that wildcat would be called the .284-.257 roberts?
L. Hammon
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steveNChunter
New member
As a side note, I bet the .257 roberts necked up to 7mm would be a great cartridge. I guess that wildcat would be called the .284-.257 roberts?
That would be a 7x57 Mauser, the parent cartridge of the .257 Roberts, 6mm Remington and others. And yes, it is a great one.
JDOxO,
Can you provide a link to the entire article you quoted earlier. It gets old trying to explain to folks that guns don't lose 50-75 fps for each inch shorter barrel. I have no idea where those numbers came from, but they get thrown around on the internet all the time. I have several other sources showing similar numbers, but would be interested in reading more and to have another source to prove the facts.
I've seen lots of these tests and 2 are ever exactly alike. It depends on the individual barrel and load. Most of the data I see on 30-06/308 shows about 15-25 fps loss, 270 and similar around 20-30 fps and most 300/7mm magnums 25-35 fps. At times you'll see slightly more or slightly less.
The interesting part is that there is more difference than that between individual barrels of the same length. It is not unheard of for an individual 22" barrel to shoot faster than another 24" barrel using the same ammo.
Can you provide a link to the entire article you quoted earlier. It gets old trying to explain to folks that guns don't lose 50-75 fps for each inch shorter barrel. I have no idea where those numbers came from, but they get thrown around on the internet all the time. I have several other sources showing similar numbers, but would be interested in reading more and to have another source to prove the facts.
I've seen lots of these tests and 2 are ever exactly alike. It depends on the individual barrel and load. Most of the data I see on 30-06/308 shows about 15-25 fps loss, 270 and similar around 20-30 fps and most 300/7mm magnums 25-35 fps. At times you'll see slightly more or slightly less.
The interesting part is that there is more difference than that between individual barrels of the same length. It is not unheard of for an individual 22" barrel to shoot faster than another 24" barrel using the same ammo.
steveNChunter
New member
Deleted post
@steveNChunter: I'm thinking, instead, that it would be a .275 Rigby. LOL
Edit: Although...it just popped into my head from my dim memory, that the .257 Roberts, would not be the 7x57, if it were necked up. I think Ned Roberts' version had a different shoulder angle. When Remington commercialized Roberts' wildcat, they used the shoulder angle of the original 7x57. So the .257 Remington Roberts, necked up, would equal the 7x57.
Edit: Although...it just popped into my head from my dim memory, that the .257 Roberts, would not be the 7x57, if it were necked up. I think Ned Roberts' version had a different shoulder angle. When Remington commercialized Roberts' wildcat, they used the shoulder angle of the original 7x57. So the .257 Remington Roberts, necked up, would equal the 7x57.
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Jim Watson
New member
Once upon a time, I bought a Ruger 77 .25-06 because it had the only 24" barrel in a non-magnum caliber.
Yawn.
The extra velocity is insignificant at ordinary ranges.
Yawn.
The extra velocity is insignificant at ordinary ranges.
@jimwatson: Ya know...whether we're talking about the .25-06 or the .257 roberts, in 22 or 24 inch barrels, they're both great cartridges for most of north american big game hunting and the difference is probably not worth a coin flip. The .25's would not be my first choice for elk, but if that's all I had, I would load up a partition, grand slam, or other premium bullet and not feel too under-gunned.
steveNChunter
New member
@ Hammie-If you lived across the pond in the UK, .275 Rigby would be the proper name for the 7x57. And yes, the Roberts shoulder angle is slightly different.
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Jim Watson
New member
I once saw a .275 Rigby, accompanied by a letter to Rigby from W.D.M. Bell who was concerned that Rigby's adoption of a 145 grain semispitzer bullet might lead them to a slower rifling twist that would not handle the standard 175 grain roundnose he found to be so effective.
@steveNChunter: Thanks for confirming my memory about the .257 rbts. At my age, things begin to fade away.
When you pick up the two volumes of P.O. Ackley's Handbook, and read about all the experimentation and wild-catting which was done 70-90 years ago, you soon realize that there's not too much new under the sun.
@jimwatson: That's quite a bit of interesting history. Didn't Bell start out with a 6.5x54 MS and then move up to a 7x57?
When you pick up the two volumes of P.O. Ackley's Handbook, and read about all the experimentation and wild-catting which was done 70-90 years ago, you soon realize that there's not too much new under the sun.
@jimwatson: That's quite a bit of interesting history. Didn't Bell start out with a 6.5x54 MS and then move up to a 7x57?
Jim Watson
New member
As I recall, Bell started his smallbore career with a 6.5 Mannlicher (.256 in English terminology.) but abandoned it after some failure of Austrian ammo.
He shot .275 Rigby for a good while but later up gunned to .318 Westley Richards.
One source says he went back to .275 because .318 ammo was not as good quality. See more at: http://www.chuckhawks.com/bell_elephants.htm
He said the new .308 Winchester looked promising, introduced only two years before his death.
He shot .275 Rigby for a good while but later up gunned to .318 Westley Richards.
One source says he went back to .275 because .318 ammo was not as good quality. See more at: http://www.chuckhawks.com/bell_elephants.htm
He said the new .308 Winchester looked promising, introduced only two years before his death.
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I have a Weatherby Vanguard series 2 in 25-06. It came with a 24" barrel. I'm pleased with the Vanguard and enjoy shooting it. Great trigger and accuracy. I too had always wanted a quarter bore. Not that I needed it, but I really wanted it. I'm glad I got one. I hope to take it on a guided hunt for antelope. I also intend to use it for some long range coyote hunting. Not worried about the pelts so the 25-06 in 85-100 grain should work just fine. There are manufacturers out there that make the 25-06 in a 24" barrel. The Vanguard isn't all that expensive. You might take a look at it.