.243 Winchester and elk: FIRSTHAND experiences requested.

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I have to wonder about the heart shot elk story too.

So you shot an elk "through the heart", as in bullet entered the heart, went through it and then out the other side, with a .243 and it took 45 minutes and a shot to the brain to kill it? How is that even possible?

The 6 broadside 7.62x39 shots before being killed by a 300 mag sounds fishy to me too. Especially the part about how the "high quality hunting ammo"..."hit bone and exploded" Is it just me or is that a little contadictory? Do you remember exactly what brand and model the ammo was?
 
ok, two words "BAD IDEA"!!!!


if you are hunting with a seasoned hunter, then maybe because they might have good shot placement and an idea of where to shoot given the postion they are in, but with an inexpereinced hunter I would say .308 with 150 or 160's is more up their alley and is a lot more foregiving if shot placement is not ideal. I would recommend 30/06 in a 180gr, but with a 30/06 you have much more recoil (unless with the managed recoil remington stuff of light handloads) and only a little improvement in bullet weight.

Personally I love the .243 for everything from large mulie's on down and I load accordingly. But for Elk sized critters I won't go with anything smaller than a .270 and prefer a 7mm Rem or Weatherby mag or my 30/06. If in bear country I might consider my .300 weatherby mag, but 30/06 with 180 gr's is enough to discourage an unruly bear.

Oh and my first elk was shot with an old surplus enfield no4 mk1 in the big and slow .303 british using factory remington soft points. The bull just looked at me and then fell over. the broad side shot right behind the shoulder left his vitals as mush and the bullet never exited and maintained almost it's entire weight and performed a perfect mushroom expanding dramatically. Of course this is the only round with the remington soft points that I can say this for, most of the faster caliers (.243, 270, etc..) don't expand that well in my expereince.

go get that inexperienced hunter a .308 or 7mm-08 or 270 or 280 or maybe even a .257 weatherby or roberts :D
 
The good news is your friend has some time to save and a perfect excuse for a new rifle! Even a couple hundred dollar K31 Swiss (which are very cool rifles) in 7.5x55 would probably be better than the .243.
 
The .243 was designed for taking small game. Use the cartridge for what it was designed for. True, you might be able to bring down a bear with one given the right circumstances (size, distance, and most important...shot placement). However, the odds of that occuring are very slim if not nill.
 
Lots of opinions but the gentleman asked for FIRSTHAND results..

all others need not apply.
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He only received two such reports, so his feedback would have been most limited indeed. I think that others who hunt in general with the .243 are qualified to comment. I also hunt in Western Oregon too.

In fact, one firsthand response that he got was that a heavy 105 gr .243 bullet shot right through an Elk's heart could not kill it.

Do you find that to be credible or helpful advice??

Heck, I am not even aware of any factory load for the .243 using a 105 gr bullet. Not every vendor even makes a 105 gr .243 bullet. So it sounds like the fellow must have been using a handload.

Both the Hornady and Lapua 105 gr .243 bullets are strictly designed for target shooting. To use either of them on an Elk would thus be a really huge mistake.

It would have been better for you to point out these flaws in the firsthand advice that he received.

.
 
In the hands of an experienced rifleman shooting a Barnes or simalerly construced bullet it certainly can be done, but that same experienced hunter would know better than t take a very iffy caliber like a .243. You stated your friend is an inexperienced hunter, this is even more reason he should not be using a caliber which is quite possibly not up to the job. Minimum- 30-06 with a well constructed 180 or 200 gr. bullet. I personally will take a 30-06 but heve almost exclusively used my .338.
 
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Nope. I never witnessed an elk taken by .243 hunting rifle. But I'm certain that a patient and careful hunter can topple just about any animal with the right shot placement. This cartridge is allowed in Wyoming for elk; no pending legislation to change this either.

Jack
 
FIRSTHAND I did not fire the shot but the man who did was no more than 6 feet from me when he touched off the round.The round hit just about dead center in the left front shoulder it did severe damage to the joint but did not penetrate to the vitales(the animal was a 4x4 600 to 700 lb bull) after a 4 hour track the animal was killed with a 44 mag shot to the head.After seeing that and being envolved in the track IMO the .243 is not a caliber that can be counted on to deliver humane 1 shot kills in the hands of an inexperinced hunter ELMOUSMC
 
I have seen elk dropped in their tracks by .243s and .257 Roberts. I would not consider either ideal. If I wanted to use a lite recoiling rifle on elk, I would go with a 6.5. The stopping power of a 6.5mm is way out of proportion to the size of the caliber. It is commonly used in europe for elk, moose, bear, etc.

ranburr
 
I already spoke my piece. I started hunting elk with a .308 a long time ago because that was what I had. The old boys up in Colorado told me that if I was a real good shot, it'd do, but they thought that it was on the light side. So much for that.

Now, if you are going to use that .243, then do this. Run a tight patched rod through the barrel and see what the twist rate is. Patch it tight, mark the rod and pull it through one full turn and see how many inches it took. That is your twist.

Now, Hornady for example, has light mag loads for the .243 with 100 gr bullets. Those are long babies. Do a bit of homework and see if you have the twist it takes to stabilize that long bullet accurately. The Hornady shells are about $2 a shot, so you cant practice a lot with them, but you could reload some of them and see what the barrel will do. Have your friend do enough shooting before season that he/she doesnt end up with buck fever and blow the deal with a poorly placed shot.
 
FIRSTHAND I did not fire the shot but the man who did was no more than 6 feet from me when he touched off the round.The round hit just about dead center in the left front shoulder it did severe damage to the joint but did not penetrate to the vitales(the animal was a 4x4 600 to 700 lb bull) after a 4 hour track the animal was killed with a 44 mag shot to the head.
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Hate to say it, but if the man who shot the elk with a .243 had used better judgment on shot placement the tracking job wouldn't have been nearly as long. To try and break heavy bone with a light .243 bullets just tells me the shooter didn't realize the limitations of his rifle. As you wrote it the .243 didn't fail the hunter did.

Had he taken out the lungs through the ribs instead of trying to break a shoulder on an elk I'm sure the job of finding this bull would have been much easier. It really does amaze me how many people there are who think you can't kill an elk without breaking both shoulders. Even if he had been using a premium bullet like Barnes, TBBC, or Partitions I believe he would have had the same result trying to take a shoulder shot on an elk with the .243 Win.

started hunting elk with a .308 a long time ago because that was what I had. The old boys up in Colorado told me that if I was a real good shot, it'd do, but they thought that it was on the light side. So much for that.
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W.C., did you ever feel under gunned while hunting elk with the .308 Win? I have a feeling the old boys were messing with the noob. Most of the people I know who hunt elk still do so with the standard elk calibers .270, .308, .30-06, and 7mm Rem Mag. I'm the exception as I've been playing with different calibers over .30 for the last couple of years but haven't ever connected with an elk.:o

Plus I still believe that a good shot with a .243 through .308 makes a better elk hunter than a mediocre one with a magnum rifle. Cartridge size doesn't really make up for poor shooting ever. If anyone ever tells you again that a .308 Win is on the light side for elk, you are more than welcome to bring yourself and that .308 over to my hunting camp any day.
 
As has been noted in another message thread here in The Hunt Section, Minnesota has just made it legal to take Moose with the .223 Remington and .22-250

The use of smaller calibers in big game hunting is growing. Even here in Western Oregon, there are some deer hunters going with the .223 Remington. Although our Blacktail deer here in Western Oregon do tend to be on the small side.

My own two personal choices for hunting big game are the .243 and .270 Winchester.

.
 
Taylorce1: I agree completely the shot was off by about 5 inches left from point of aim.Unknown to the shooter the scope had developed a wandering zero(later sent for repair)A .243 was never meant to be a bone buster and the example was just to illustrate that an inexperenced hunter can get them selves a truck load of work with a poorly placed shot ELMOUSMC
 
I just don't see the downside to shooting them with the largest caliber/cartridge you can stand to shoot. My limit is about in the 30/06 or 7MM Rem Mag category. But, I wouldn't mind using a 300 WBY if I didn't dislike getting the crap kicked out of me so much. The notion that a 243 can kill an Elk as humanely in the real world as something larger with the misplaced shots that occur outside of forums defies logic. IMO
 
An ideal caliber, certainly not, as many others have pointed out. However the first 3 elk of my hunting career were taken with a 243, as well as quite a few more deer and antelope. It is a great cartridge for a young hunter and I would have no problems with my son using it for his first deer/elk rifle. As you become more accustomed to recoil, time to graduate in caliber.
 
How about a 22lr? Or a big long pointy pole?

Sure you can stop an elk with a 243.

The Alaska natives used to kill Polar Bears with single shot 22lr rifles. And before that with a big long pointy pole!

Just because you can do it does not that it is perhaps the most humane/ethical way to do it. Or the best way to do it.

I have shot many different calibers, including 243. I have never taken a 243 out elk hunting back when I used to elk hunt in Montana. And would downright scared to attempt to use anything like that with any charging big game animal up here! (Flame thrower or bazooka might make it comfortable!)

If my marksmanship is off a bit, I would prefer to "overkill" with caliber choice, and lose some meat, and have a swift/humane kill, than after the fact say, "Oops!"

There is a reason that folks up here in Alaska do not still hunt Polar Bears, or Brown Bears, Elk, or Moose (BIG GAME) etc... with a long pointy stick or a 22lr. We now have the availability of much better equipment.

Use the right tool for the job!!!

A beginning/inexperienced hunter should also be learning the importance of ethical hunting, and this surely includes caliber choice to match the game.

We are talking hunting, not survival. Survival=all bets off.

Hunting may be our heritage; but, we live in a Democracy. Most people do not hunt any further than a McDonald's drive up window.

If your friend wants to add fuel to the anti-hunting fire, then the big long pointy pole, or underpowered ill-placed shot and the stories told to others will do so.

Please help make all of our hunting world a better place!

And yes, practice, practice, and then practice!

Happy Trails
 
Taylorce1: I agree completely the shot was off by about 5 inches left from point of aim.
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That's the kind of stuff that happens while hunting. You can scream about shot placement all you want, but if you're going to shoot an animal, shoot it with a caliber that will penetrate the animal's heavy bone if necessary. It only takes being off by a couple of inches for that bullet need to penetrate a thick bone (like a big rib or shoulderblade). Bullets don't always go exactly where you aim, so sufficient penetration is a valid concern.

I know, I know. The biggest ________ was shot years ago with a .22 short by some native somewhere. :D
 
Hey Chuck you there?

You posted the question and then never followed up.

What did the friend settle on for a caliber (hopefully not the .243)?

Like I said earlier 7mm-08, 270, 284, or 308, or 30/06 if he wants to go after bear or moose later in life would be better for an in-experienced hunter to allow for bad shot placement and no worry on kill potential.

He the hunter is recoil shy but still wants to have the option to take large game I would go with the 30/06 and shoot the managed recoil loads, but they need to realize that when in bear or moose country they should really be shooting full power loads with the 180 or 200 gr loadings.

Me, I carry 30/06 with 180gr Barnes Triple Shok's and oh by the way I carry a can of bear mace as well just to deter (in an ethical manner) any pesky bear or mt. lion that has ideas of putting me on the menu. :eek:

My wife who is 5'10" and 150 is very recoil shy prefers my 7mm-08 encore because it is light weight and has little recoil compared to it's impressive take down power with the 140 gr winchester ballistic silver tips.
 
Irony

This may seem a bit ironic. On another forum they are knocking the Sierra 200 grain Game King. They are saying the bullet will not hold up to a 300 RUM on elk. Now on this forum we are questioning the ability of the 243 as an elk cartridge?? This really is America!! Tom.
 
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