shootbrownelk
New member
I use 100 gr. Nosler partitions, 80 gr. Hornady GMX and 85 gr. Barnes TTSX bullets in my Remington 660 using IMR 4064 or IMR 4350. My 660 has a 1 in 9 twist.
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.243 rookie
- Thread starter 02bigdogs17
- Start date
jamaica wrote, "It doesn't matter how fast that bullet is, what matters is hitting your target!"
That's not correct. I've seen pointed bullets with hardened cores that went right through a deer without expanding even at close range because they were coming out of a 6.5X55 instead of a 6.5mm magnum. All lead-cored bullets will have a range of velocity at which they will expand. Unless they start out big-bore, they need to expand to cause enough damage to drop a deer promptly. A .30 calibre hole through a deer will often allow the deer to run hundreds of yards before it lays down out of sight. Bullets that will expand reliably out to 400-600 yards often will over-expand at close range and give little penetration. So, velocity matters. I want a bullet that will do the job from muzzle to ~200 yards at modest velocity, say a heavy RN bullet at modest velocity. I want a bullet that will do the job from ~200 yards to 400 yards at near-maximum velocity to ensure good expansion and low height of trajectory. Velocity certainly does matter.
jamaica also wrote, "Point of aim? I reckon if you are using a scope the point of aim is where the cross hairs are."
No. The point of aim is where the sights are aligned on the deer. That's not just language. It has meaning. Where I live deer have fairly long fur. If your point of aim is the bottom edge of the fur, your bullet has to rise several inches to get into the vital zone. If you aim at the top edge of the fur, the bullet has to drop down to the spine or further to get to the vital zone, again several inches. Many advocate aiming at the centre of the vital zone but then the height of trajectory before the second zero is achieved far sooner than when the drop past the second zero drops the bullet out of the vital zone. I recommend aiming at the bottom edge of the vital zone and setting the second zero out as far as practical with the bullet still able to expand and penetrate and the height of trajectory still fits in the vital zone. Then you've maximized the effective range of your rifle at least for common hunting rounds. Some calibres are very effective out to 600 yards but then you have to hold under which can be difficult in rolling or bushy terrain. I've never been in a situation where I needed to do that and I've never had a problem shooting over or under a deer at any reasonable range.
That's not correct. I've seen pointed bullets with hardened cores that went right through a deer without expanding even at close range because they were coming out of a 6.5X55 instead of a 6.5mm magnum. All lead-cored bullets will have a range of velocity at which they will expand. Unless they start out big-bore, they need to expand to cause enough damage to drop a deer promptly. A .30 calibre hole through a deer will often allow the deer to run hundreds of yards before it lays down out of sight. Bullets that will expand reliably out to 400-600 yards often will over-expand at close range and give little penetration. So, velocity matters. I want a bullet that will do the job from muzzle to ~200 yards at modest velocity, say a heavy RN bullet at modest velocity. I want a bullet that will do the job from ~200 yards to 400 yards at near-maximum velocity to ensure good expansion and low height of trajectory. Velocity certainly does matter.
jamaica also wrote, "Point of aim? I reckon if you are using a scope the point of aim is where the cross hairs are."
No. The point of aim is where the sights are aligned on the deer. That's not just language. It has meaning. Where I live deer have fairly long fur. If your point of aim is the bottom edge of the fur, your bullet has to rise several inches to get into the vital zone. If you aim at the top edge of the fur, the bullet has to drop down to the spine or further to get to the vital zone, again several inches. Many advocate aiming at the centre of the vital zone but then the height of trajectory before the second zero is achieved far sooner than when the drop past the second zero drops the bullet out of the vital zone. I recommend aiming at the bottom edge of the vital zone and setting the second zero out as far as practical with the bullet still able to expand and penetrate and the height of trajectory still fits in the vital zone. Then you've maximized the effective range of your rifle at least for common hunting rounds. Some calibres are very effective out to 600 yards but then you have to hold under which can be difficult in rolling or bushy terrain. I've never been in a situation where I needed to do that and I've never had a problem shooting over or under a deer at any reasonable range.
Don Fischer
New member
I don't much use 243 on deer but have shot three in the past. My ex killed several with her 6mm Rem which I only loaded 100gr bullet's for. Two of mine were 100 gr and one was 75gr. A 75gr is definitely a varmint bullet and I wouldn't recommend it. If I were to go back to the 243 for deer, for me it would need to be 87gr and above. The 87gr and above bullet's maker's clain re made for deer. Sighting in is very important. I use the max point blank method and seldom shoot to 300yds, but I did one time! Not with a 243. To use MPBR, you figure the size of target you want to hit. My 243's are set with a 6" targrt. What that means is the bullet will never rise over 3" or fall 3" all the way to the MPBR. To get there sighting in at 100yds works well but, you need to know where the bullet path is to know how high to zero at 100yds, It will not be right on.
I have a MPBR I figured up for my 22 mg right here. 40gr bullet with BC of .095 got the BC off the internet. Muzzle velocity is 2200fps. The size of the target is 4" MPBR is 147yds. At 100yds the bullet will be 1.7" high. at 147yds the bullet will be right on and at 150yds, (as far as I got the data for) the bullet will be 2.1 inch low. What that means, is if you sight in at MPBR with a 4" target I'm good to hld right on out to 150yds and the bullet will never rise above 2" or fall below 2" from the muzzle all the wat to 150yds. Well 2.1 low at 150.
Take most high power bolt action CF rifles and sight in on an 8" target and most will either still be on the target at 300yds or just a bit low. Think of shooting through a steel pipe that inside measurement is 8". You start with the rifle zeroed to some point where the bullet never rise's over 4" and never falls 4" with out touching the top or bottom of the pipe! All my rifle's are sighted in this way and out to 300 yds there is little if any hold over. At 300 yds the most I've have to hold with any of them is about 7", pretty easy thing to do. The target area on a deer is what, 12"? shoot at it with a MPBR at 8" and your good to go. I do adjust the size of the target to get the most out of the rifle. You notice with the 22mag I used a 4" target, I use a 6" target with my 243's and the rest either 6" to 8" depending on the cartridge.
In my youth writer's always said to zero your rifle to be 3-3 1/2" high at 100yds and you'd be good to go. That was the days before it was called MPBR but that is what it turned out to be. To figure it you need some kind of computer program, couldn't tell you what. My chronograph figures it out for me but, after getting the data you need to shoot against it a various ranges that shot on the read out. I also confine my shot's on game animals to about 350yds, only did that once farther, 330yds, and did it just to say I did! If Iwanted to go further than what I have it's a simple matter to feed the data bck into my chronograph and get to 1000yds and not sure i=of the increment's but I;ve used down to 5yr increment's to get it right for 500yds for my 6.5x06 with a 140gr bullet, scary accurate!
The 243 will certainly work on deer, anyone that say's different is simply fooling themself. I don't use it much because I have what I believe are better cartridge's.
I have a MPBR I figured up for my 22 mg right here. 40gr bullet with BC of .095 got the BC off the internet. Muzzle velocity is 2200fps. The size of the target is 4" MPBR is 147yds. At 100yds the bullet will be 1.7" high. at 147yds the bullet will be right on and at 150yds, (as far as I got the data for) the bullet will be 2.1 inch low. What that means, is if you sight in at MPBR with a 4" target I'm good to hld right on out to 150yds and the bullet will never rise above 2" or fall below 2" from the muzzle all the wat to 150yds. Well 2.1 low at 150.
Take most high power bolt action CF rifles and sight in on an 8" target and most will either still be on the target at 300yds or just a bit low. Think of shooting through a steel pipe that inside measurement is 8". You start with the rifle zeroed to some point where the bullet never rise's over 4" and never falls 4" with out touching the top or bottom of the pipe! All my rifle's are sighted in this way and out to 300 yds there is little if any hold over. At 300 yds the most I've have to hold with any of them is about 7", pretty easy thing to do. The target area on a deer is what, 12"? shoot at it with a MPBR at 8" and your good to go. I do adjust the size of the target to get the most out of the rifle. You notice with the 22mag I used a 4" target, I use a 6" target with my 243's and the rest either 6" to 8" depending on the cartridge.
In my youth writer's always said to zero your rifle to be 3-3 1/2" high at 100yds and you'd be good to go. That was the days before it was called MPBR but that is what it turned out to be. To figure it you need some kind of computer program, couldn't tell you what. My chronograph figures it out for me but, after getting the data you need to shoot against it a various ranges that shot on the read out. I also confine my shot's on game animals to about 350yds, only did that once farther, 330yds, and did it just to say I did! If Iwanted to go further than what I have it's a simple matter to feed the data bck into my chronograph and get to 1000yds and not sure i=of the increment's but I;ve used down to 5yr increment's to get it right for 500yds for my 6.5x06 with a 140gr bullet, scary accurate!
The 243 will certainly work on deer, anyone that say's different is simply fooling themself. I don't use it much because I have what I believe are better cartridge's.
Design of Bullet is Critical
jamaica wrote, "Now watch "pogson" beat me up for this one! "
Nope! Design of bullet is critical. Too soft a core or too fragile a jacket at high velocity means explosive disintegration of the bullet. That's desirable for varmints one wants to blast to smithereens but it's no good for deer. Several commentators have suggested heavier bullets in .243 for deer. That's mostly true. There are exceptions. Some bullets of 87 grains and up are recommended for varminting or target-shooting and not deer. For deer we want the bullet to expand to make a big hole but to retain lots of weight so that it goes all the way through to leave a blood trail and increase ventilation/bleeding.
e.g. Hornady makes some 80-87 grain bullets in .243 that are recommended both for varmints and medium game. I would not use those on deer inside of 100 yards for fear of over-expansion. They might kill a deer quickly but spray the insides with lead fragments. They might not penetrate anything thick like a shoulder.
e.g. Sierra makes bullets from 85 grains and less that are strictly for varmints or targets. They do state with good placement the 85 gr varminter is OK for small deer. Where I hunt, small deer aren't legal... They do make an 85gr deer bullet and their 100 grain bullets are just fine out to quite a long range. They will expand gracefully, penetrate and exit.
I've had a couple of bad/nearly bad experiences with this. Once I was guarding the horizon expecting deer at ranges up to 400 yards with a 7mm Rem Mag. I had 140 gr SP loaded up. To my surprise a deer headed right for me appeared out of the corner of my eye. I swung up my 10X scope and popped him right in the base of the neck. The deer spun around DRT. OOPS! It was not a huge deer far away but a small deer at 100 yards... I never found the bullet and nothing exited. There was a fist-sized entrance hole an inch to the left of the shoulder. That bullet is not a varmint bullet but was not recommended for close shots like that. It's meant for 200 yards and further. Another time I fired a .264 bullet through a deer to no effect. It kept on moving as if nothing had happened. The bullet did not expand even at close range. That was a bullet intended for magnum velocities and I had selected it for a 6.5X55. I learned from my mistakes. I now test bullets for expansion close in and at maximum range.
I find that no bullet is great at both extremes. One has to load down in velocity for close shots to have good behaviour and one has to load up in velocity for good behaviour at long range. So, I carry two kinds of rounds. Usually, I use a heavy RN bullet and load it down until it will expand nicely from 0 to 200 yards. Usually I use a medium weight SPBT bullet at near-maximum velocity for 200 yards and more. The shape of the nose helps me keep them sorted out and I can load one slow one on the top of the magazine in a bolt-action and shuck it if I need to shoot far. I zero for maximum range with the pointed bullet and use the flattest part of the trajectory, the stuff before the second zero. Works for me and mine.
jamaica wrote, "Now watch "pogson" beat me up for this one! "
Nope! Design of bullet is critical. Too soft a core or too fragile a jacket at high velocity means explosive disintegration of the bullet. That's desirable for varmints one wants to blast to smithereens but it's no good for deer. Several commentators have suggested heavier bullets in .243 for deer. That's mostly true. There are exceptions. Some bullets of 87 grains and up are recommended for varminting or target-shooting and not deer. For deer we want the bullet to expand to make a big hole but to retain lots of weight so that it goes all the way through to leave a blood trail and increase ventilation/bleeding.
e.g. Hornady makes some 80-87 grain bullets in .243 that are recommended both for varmints and medium game. I would not use those on deer inside of 100 yards for fear of over-expansion. They might kill a deer quickly but spray the insides with lead fragments. They might not penetrate anything thick like a shoulder.
e.g. Sierra makes bullets from 85 grains and less that are strictly for varmints or targets. They do state with good placement the 85 gr varminter is OK for small deer. Where I hunt, small deer aren't legal... They do make an 85gr deer bullet and their 100 grain bullets are just fine out to quite a long range. They will expand gracefully, penetrate and exit.
I've had a couple of bad/nearly bad experiences with this. Once I was guarding the horizon expecting deer at ranges up to 400 yards with a 7mm Rem Mag. I had 140 gr SP loaded up. To my surprise a deer headed right for me appeared out of the corner of my eye. I swung up my 10X scope and popped him right in the base of the neck. The deer spun around DRT. OOPS! It was not a huge deer far away but a small deer at 100 yards... I never found the bullet and nothing exited. There was a fist-sized entrance hole an inch to the left of the shoulder. That bullet is not a varmint bullet but was not recommended for close shots like that. It's meant for 200 yards and further. Another time I fired a .264 bullet through a deer to no effect. It kept on moving as if nothing had happened. The bullet did not expand even at close range. That was a bullet intended for magnum velocities and I had selected it for a 6.5X55. I learned from my mistakes. I now test bullets for expansion close in and at maximum range.
I find that no bullet is great at both extremes. One has to load down in velocity for close shots to have good behaviour and one has to load up in velocity for good behaviour at long range. So, I carry two kinds of rounds. Usually, I use a heavy RN bullet and load it down until it will expand nicely from 0 to 200 yards. Usually I use a medium weight SPBT bullet at near-maximum velocity for 200 yards and more. The shape of the nose helps me keep them sorted out and I can load one slow one on the top of the magazine in a bolt-action and shuck it if I need to shoot far. I zero for maximum range with the pointed bullet and use the flattest part of the trajectory, the stuff before the second zero. Works for me and mine.