2400 vs h110-44mag?

I've run a ton of .38 through this rifle, hand loads with hand cast bullets, and never found a speck, and the barrel is really pretty smooth. I'm running factory cast bullets with less than full house .357, but haven't bothered to try them in the rifle yet. Maybe I'll remain with the .38 or go to jacketed.

The last time I took my colt out, I was carrying my 158 handloads, and forgot to change out my 125 soft points. my loads are obviously far lighter than factory 125. the 125 weren't a problem to control, but my 158s are actually not a problem. My BIL wanted to see how I did rapid, I can dump all six in 2-3 seconds into center mass at 30* feet with no problem shooting double action. Not really much slower than with a semiauto.
 
buck460XVR sure picked my post apart (I must have pi$$ed him off somehow), but I stand by everything I wrote. First, I'm addressing a new reloader and my advice to each and every new reloader is K.I.S.S. Reloading normally isn't a temporary thing, where all aspects must be experience as soon as possible. It is a lifetime hobby where getting a good base is preferred (kinda like learning long division before advanced algebra).

I got my first .44 Magnum, a 6" 629 in '86, I was into the biggest, baddest reloads I could assemble (W296/H110 w/ 240 gr jacketed bullets up to//near max.) I enjoyed the report and the dust blowing away from my shooting station at the local indoor range. My loads got plenty of attention and garnered a lot of comments. That lasted about a year. My guns (5, .44 Magnums) and I are much better off now.

I have seen questionable load data on forums and even one outright dangerous load (a full grain over max. of a fast powder) and heard some really wild stuff at the range and gun shop. Many times a "who said" (or one with perceived authority) will influence a new reloader to go where it is not safe. For a new reloader, err on the side of caution and get data from a published manual(s). What's the downside of that? There's plenty of loads/components to keep a new reloader busy for quite a while. If reloading is a hobby, why rush to find a "perfect" load and I believe there is no time wasted reloading. I reload for my guns and shooting not a "popular" or "celebrity" load. I have found nothing on line that I haven't seen in a reloading manual, and mebbe it's fun to compare loads with another reloader, but again, I'm addressing a new reloader. If one is looking to find a load, why go through 2 or three steps before getting a load out of a manual?

I sincerely doubt the OP would benefit by a slow powder over Unique for a carbine and it it really necessary or wanted to have 200 fps more out of a load? (One of my best reloads for my Puma 20" carbine is a 265 gr, RNFP over a load of Bluedot that will certainly dispatch any deer around at normal "deer ranges"). Again I believe in K.I.S.S. for new reloaders

So, go ahead and pick this post apart, trying to point out better methods/components for a new reloader, and I'll just stick with my comments...

Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun...

BTW; these methods have kept me and my guns safe for 30+ years of reloading...:p
 
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I cant argue with the logic there, mik. Unless a person is a skilled shooter/reloader, it's dangerous to play games with handloads. There is no reason for a person to play the "just one more grain" game, IMO, and it's nothing but psychological most of the time. I've come around to the point that I don't even try to reach full loads anymore for anything, all I do anymore is target shoot, and I use nothing but factory for shooting at live things. So going back to the point I was making, why in the world would a casual shooter who isn't shooting for range or lethality pump up the pressure? I can't see any reason to use the slow burning powders, since a plain powder like blue dot will create magnum performance, but obviously, the slow ones will create far stronger loads.

There's a guy here who just loves to take his 50 bmg to his local range, and bash the crap out of other people there. He likes to take the center bench so he can do it both directions. IMO, someone who goes to a range and deliberately tries to ruin another person's time there is a jackass, but running heavy magnum loads isn't at all the same thing. Most of the people I know will move their .300 magnums to the end anyway.
 
I have used h110 and d 2400, both work well. I had better accuuracyy with 2400 but your milage may vary. Try both. If you want less than mag. Loads try unique or blue dot.j
 
As a practical matter, do you have access to 2400. I haven't seen a bottle of 2400 on the shelf in over three years.

I like 2400 because it never needs magnum primers and doesn't have the finicky nature of 296/H110...but I still have some.
 
Now that everyone is SO wrapped around the axle concerning powders..let's get to the rest of the O.P.'s question.

I'll start with.....Marlin w/ MicroGroove rifling or something else with Standard rifling? If MicroGroove, your experience with Cast will be disappointing if you drive them over 1600 FPS or so....less with softer bullets. If MicroGroove and suddenly your groups go to pot.. chances are you are going too fast for the rifling.

Jacketed Bullets = SOFT POINT. Leave the Hollow Points out for deer hunting.

Bullet Weight. 240 gr or heavier. IMHO 240 is the best balance of weight and velocity giving you the best range vs. trajectory. Also the more likely to produce better groups as rifling for the carbines is centered around that weight.
 
As noted earlier, with H110/W296 you load a magnum load or you don't use it. You cannot cut the charges, whereas 2400 will still produce good results with a 75% charge.

I used jacketed bullets because cast bullets did not shoot accurately in my "Ballard" barrel Marlin. I had several awful microgrooves and sent my 1982 vintage Marlin off to Marlin for one of their Ballard barrels. I do believe the Ballard barrels are better quality than the microgrooves, but the Ballard was only slightly better with cast than the microgroove.

In my rifle H110/W296 shot a little better than 2400. I am of the opinion that it is desirable to have low extreme velocity spreads in lever guns if accuracy is the intended goal. These things are extreme sensitive to velocity changes, with the foreend, magazine tube hanging off the barrel.

It was after this test sequence that I figured out H110 was the exact same powder as W296. About a decade later gunwriters fessed up that they were the same.



M1894 Marlin Ballard Barrel


240 Speer JHP 22.0 grs 2400 CCI 500
21-Dec-01 T = 54 °F

Ave Vel =1747
Std Dev =21
ES =68
Low =1717
High =1785
N =7

240 Nosler JHP 24.0 grs W296 WLP Fed cases
23-Mar-05 T = 65° F

Ave Vel =1725
Std Dev =7
ES =21
Low =1715
High =1736
N =5


240 Nosler JHP 24.5 grs W296 WLP Fed cases
23-Mar-05T = 65° F
Ave Vel =1752
Std Dev =12
ES =28
Low =1735
High =1763
N =5


240 Nosler JHP 24.0 grs H110 WLP Midway cases
23-Mar-05 T = 65° F

Ave Vel =1710
Std Dev =3
ES =9
Low =1705
High =1714
N =5



240 Nosler JHP 24.5 grs H110 WLP Midway cases
23-Mar-05 T = 65° F

Ave Vel =1745
Std Dev =12
ES =45
Low =1723
High =1768
N =10


240 Rem JHP 24.0 grs H110 WLP Midway cases
23-Mar-05 T = 65° F

Ave Vel =1719
Std Dev =10
ES =29
Low =1705
High =1734
N =10

M1894FullLength.jpg
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The manufacturer puts out warnings not to reduce H110/W296 charges and I don't know why. I don't know if it is a safety concern or a loss of performance, but in a rifle, go for the full power loads. I have shot my Marlin with reduced loads and accuracy was not as good as the full power.
 
My vote is start with H-110 if doesn't get you what you want then try some thing else. The bullet is my first decision for hunting loads.

If you can afford it try the Barnes 225gr. XPB. The reason is the kinetic energy and velocity will give you a bullet that won't loose weight it will open up and penetrate. That gives a little flatter trajectory. All made to dispatch the deer quickly.

Remember accuracy is important. Try for 3" at 100 yds.
 
Originally posted by mikld:

buck460XVR sure picked my post apart (I must have pi$$ed him off somehow)
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Nope, not pi$$ed, just a difference of opinion. That's what these types of forums are good for, getting a variety of opinions along with the capability of gleaning knowledge from folks with much more experience. Those folks with experience don't always agree, nor are they always trying to obtain the exact same results. Kinda what makes us all unique.


Originally posted by mikld:

So, go ahead and pick this post apart, trying to point out better methods/components for a new reloader, and I'll just stick with my comments...
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Just as I'll stick with mine. New reloaders need to use components that are easy to use, and will produce safe effective and consistent ammo that will perform well regardless of the firearm it's shot in. The OP never told us what kind of rifle/carbine he was loading for. As has been said, not all .44mag rifles/carbines shoot lead well. Ruger recommends against the use of medium velocity lead ammo in it's 77/44 carbines. This is why I would recommend jacketed projectiles to start with, used at legitimate .44 mag velocities. They are the easiest to have success with for a newbie that is just learning the amount of flare and crimp to put on a bullet. It also means that most off the shelf bullets will shoot well without slugging the bore. I tend to agree with what SHR970 said...
Jacketed Bullets = SOFT POINT. Leave the Hollow Points out for deer hunting.

Bullet Weight. 240 gr or heavier. IMHO 240 is the best balance of weight and velocity giving you the best range vs. trajectory. Also the more likely to produce better groups as rifling for the carbines is centered around that weight.
Click to expand...

If the OP bought the IMR4227 recommended to him, he's off to a great start. A slightly compressed load under a 240gr XTP or a Nosler or Speer 240gr JSP will shoot well from any carbine and perform well terminally on deer sized game, and IMR4227 throws like a dream from most powder measures.

Again, I ain't dissing anyone else's opinion, just saying that no one opinion on powder/projectiles is the right one for everyone. Not even mine.:p
 
There seem to be this irrational fear of 296/110. Because of the results it gets, people just assume that its riding on the edge of blowing up a gun, when in fact it's whole claim to fame is lower peak pressures maintained longer.

Your low recoil, fast burning powders are far more dangerous, as they spike high, and taper off quickly, giving you the felt FALSE impression that less pressure was generated. When you look in a reloading manual pay attention to the pressures being generated by fast powders with "light" loads.

110/296 is about the safest powder you can use for magnum loads. You simply follow the directions. You have a 3 grain spread, so there's not really much "working up" to do. The percentage is so small that varying your load within that spread produces little difference within that range. Magnum primers are recommended over standard by companies that offer both, (CCI, Fed)or regular large pistol primers by companies that offer only one. (Rem, Win)Again, follow the directions in your load data. I've never known an issue with a standard primer unless it is coupled with below start load.

Loading below published data may cause squibs. It is nearly impossible to overload it. When using 296/110, you really have to try hard to screw it up.

24 gr. of 296 with a 240 gr. jacketed bullet, over a magnum primer and with a firm crimp. This has been a standard load for many years for .44 mag. and would still make a great hunting load for that caliber.
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This load should be engraved on the barrel of every gun chambers in 44 mag. If your gun won't shoot this, your gun won't shoot.

Unique is a great powder for target loads on up to mid range magnums, and I use it a lot for target loads, but I wouldn't characterize it as being "safer". it requires more care.

The OPs question was about 296/110 vs 2400 for hunting deer in Ohio. If you are going to hunt with a 44 magnum, then load and take full advantage of some real 44 magnum ammo. See Stoney's (and the world's most popular) deer hunting load above. XTP is the most popular weapon of choice.
 
haven't followed the thread diligently. I know that in the past, it was strongly pointed out that nothing but the heaviest range of bullets should be used, loads should never be reduced beyond recommendations, and that lead loads were not to be used at all, no matter if you followed the other rules.

It seems that this has been relaxed some after reading a few things in powder resources. Is that true, and why? has the powder itself been improved to allow for slightly looser usage, for example heavy and hard lead, and lighter bullets that were once allowed? I have no intention of ever using the two, and will be using mid range powders because I don't want to load full house loads. I'm fine with that, and I'm not worried about higher pressures generated by some of the others, since they are still well within reason. If I ever decide to push even higher, I have a can of 4227 that I bought for 221, and never used since I bought 2015 br instead. I'm one of those luddites who will not change my original prejudices because there hasn't been a clear reason to use it, since I just don't care about getting the absolute maximum out of my things.
 
TimSr said it well, and I have been running cast bullets over H110 in .44 Mag for 40+ years in M29's. I also get fine results with H110 in heavy .45 Colt loadings for my lever action carbines.
 
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