.22Magnum vs 5.7X28

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Maxem0815

Moderator
I have been kicking around buying a Kel-Tec 22 magnum. It holds 30 rounds and ballistically the external ballistics are only 20 fps and 20 ft lbs different from the 5.7X28. I once talked to a Deputy Sheriff CSI who said that the .22 Mag is a misunderstood cartridge. " the terminal ballistics at ranges of 30 feet and under are nasty". Other Deputies have told me 90 of gun fights go down within 10 feet. I think since the .22 Magnum is one third the cost of a 5 7 :)and I already have a 9mm &.45 that the 22 mag would be a fun inexpensive shooter and a good home defence gun. Does any one have an opinion?:confused:


Mace

Happiness is a belt fed weapon and lots of ammo
 
The PMR30 is a unique and interesting gun. A LOT of people have interest in it. Kel-Tec has been experiencing some production glitches which often happens in any new issue, especially one so innovative. I feel they're a responsible company and will get it all sorted out. Production was halted for awhile because they had to redesign the barrel. According to the latest update on their website, they are shipping again... and replacement barrels are available. Link:

http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/
 
the 22 mag would be a fun inexpensive shooter and a good home defence gun. Does any one have an opinion?
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I agree with home defence. Inexpensive, NO. Maybe compared to centerfire ammo but not cheap
 
It holds 30 rounds and ballistically the external ballistics are only 20 fps and 20 ft lbs different from the 5.7X28.
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That is not an accurate statement. The 5.7 is much higher in both velocity and energy. Some people want the rounds to be the same but they are not. Keltec claims 1200fps from the PMR, as opposed to over 2000 fps from the FN. That's a pretty significant increase. The enthusiasm for the Keltec is primarily due to it's low price. If the FN was priced at $300 it would be very popular as well.

If you already have 9mm and 45acp for use, why would you want to switch to a .22? For plinking and fun, yes, I can see, but what advantage over your centerfire guns are you expecting?
 
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The detail that is left out of many arguments is frontal diameter. None of the small caliber rounds can produce the same amount of damage that a bigger caliber will if the bigger caliber expands. While the 22's will cause injury/death, I don't want to wait on the outcome of a shooting. I have doubts about any round smaller than 9mm producing the results I would hope for in an emergency.
Another concern is that I've had more fail to fire incidents with rimfire ammo than with centerfire ammo. By this I mean the mechanics functioned but the primer failed to ignite. I've carried a 22 rimfire but always had concerns that it would click rather than bang when the chips were down.
 
Forgetting the stopping power argument for a minute, The .22WMR has not been a successful autoloader round. The tapered case and rimmed cartridge just haven't worked that well in auto's. I love the round in a revolver but I would definitely wait till they have worked the bugs out before buying the Keltec. I hope they do, but I am not holding my breath.
 
Sorry PSP, but I have done some testing of the 22 WMR and the FN 5.7 right here at my shop and I can tell you that if we compare equal bullet weights in equal barrel lengths, the 5.7 is VERY close to the 22 WMR and in fact, in one test over the chronograph with an old S&W M-48 with a tight .003" cylinder gap, against the FN pistol, the S&W averages 6 FPS faster.
So the 5.7 is NOT much faster and does NOT give much more energy.
 
Sorry PSP, but I have done some testing of the 22 WMR and the FN 5.7 right here at my shop and I can tell you that if we compare equal bullet weights in equal barrel lengths,
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First, you're telling us you have a M-48 with a 4.75" barrel, (the barrel length of the only pistol available... the FN), and you're saying you generated a velocity near 2000fps with .22WMR. Please let us know what brand of ammo that was used and please post of photo of the M-48. :confused:
 
I don't know about the 5.7 for I have no experience with it but the .22M outta a handgun = lame. If the 5.7 is truely 6fps slower (a statement which I believe is completely BS) than it too is LAME.

LK
 
While the velocities of the two cartridges may look similar at first glance, one has to remember that most published velocities for .22 Magnum are from rifles. I found a review of the Kel-Tec over on gunblast, and the author seemed to be getting 1100-1500fps depending on the bullet weight and brand of ammo.

http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm

I also found a review by the same author (Jeff Quinn) on the FN Five-Seven pistol and, with comparable bullet weights, the 5.7x28 seems to be delivering 400-600fps higher velocity than the .22 Magnum out of the Kel-Tec.

http://www.gunblast.com/FN-FiveseveN.htm

Besides the difference in ballistics, the .22 Magnum has other drawbacks when compared to the 5.7x28. As has been mentioned, the long, tapered, rimmed cartridge is not one that is particularly easy to get reliable feeding from in a semi-automatic handgun. The shorter, rimless, bottlenecked cartridge is, however, a very feed-reliable design that has be tested and accepted before with cartridges like 7.62x25 Tokarev, .30 Luger, and .357 Sig.

Also, the rimfire cartridges such as .22 Magnum do not have a particularly good reputation for reliably ignition. Centerfires like the 5.7x28 and most other handgun rounds are much more reliable in this respect (I suspect this is one of the reasons that the .25 ACP has remained as popular as it is).

Personally, the only way I would trust a .22 Magnum for self-defense would be in a DA revolver because feeding is a non-issue and a misfire can be remedied by another pull of the trigger.

The only way that I can buy that Wyosmith's M48 got .22 Magnum velocities comparable to 5.7x28 with the same weight bullets is if his gun has a much longer barrel. Since he said equal bullet weights and equal barrel lengths, I'm more inclined to think that his chronograph wasn't functioning properly, he got hold of some abnormal ammunition, or he's simply exaggerating the .22 Magnum's velocities.
 
it has capacity, most of the tactical nuts should be happy with that. the keltec has the best looking magazine release ive seen since i got a 10/22 extension.
 
Personally, the only way I would trust a .22 Magnum for self-defense would be in a DA revolver because feeding is a non-issue and a misfire can be remedied by another pull of the trigger.
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+1

But then there's just something about that Kel-Tec!! :)
 
I agree with what your shooting at. The .22 Magnum is Fun, Cheap, and still powerful enough to kill. Sometimes I would have to say the .22 series is very deadly. From its richocet and how it turns into fine shrapnel.
 
Centerfire vs rimfire. Well, if my life depended on it?

TBS, I'd buy the 22, if I had stupid amounts of money, I'd have one of each.
 
I have been kicking around buying a Kel-Tec 22 magnum. It holds 30 rounds
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The Five-seveN holds 30 rounds with CMMG's 1.5-inch magazine extension.



and ballistically the external ballistics are only 20 fps and 20 ft lbs different from the 5.7X28.
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In a pistol-to-pistol comparison, with 40-grain bullets, the 5.7x28mm EA loads achieve a muzzle velocity roughly 700 ft/s faster than the .22 Magnum.

When 30-grain bullets are compared pistol-to-pistol, the 5.7x28mm EA loads achieve a muzzle velocity roughly 1000 ft/s faster than the .22 Magnum.

In a pistol-to-pistol comparison, the 5.7x28mm EA loads produce about three times the muzzle energy of the .22 Magnum.

http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm
http://www.gunblast.com/FN-FiveseveN.htm
 
I have a FiveSeven and can reload for about $6 a box.
Bout I still have a PMR30 on order. Might end up the same place my 17HMR is in my gun safe.

Want a mean 5.7x28 pistol get a 10" T/C Contender barrel.

Doug
 
Hello, A few years ago, I obtained an FN 5.7X28 pistol and SS192 ammo for T&E for the agency I worked for. I chronographed this combination and have chronographed a fair amount of .22 Mag. rimfire ammo, from revolver and rifle over a period of years. I had attempted to obtain the FN SS190 AP duty ammo, but found it had to come from a bonded warehouse, taking about 90 days extra. We decided to just try it with hollow point SS192 "practice ammo" that we could obtain without delay. From the FN 5.7 pistol with 4.8" barrel, the SS192 averaged 2025 fps. It was my understanding that the SS190 duty ammo was supposed to exceed this velocity in the pistol, but as I mentioned, I was unable to obtain this ammo for testing.

I have chronographed the .22 rimfire Mag. from at least two different Ruger revolvers with the 4 5/8" barrel. The Highest velocity I was ever able to record from he .22 Mag. revolver was 1574 fps with Winchester 30 grain "Supreme" Hollow point. Out of a 16 1/4" rifle barrel, I have seen the .22 Mag exceed 2200 fps with with the CCI Maxi Mag+V.

I often see on the internet that 5.7X28 is not much more than .22 Mag. But, to me, it's apples and oranges. Velocities are much higher and more consistent in the 5.7 pistol than in the .22 Mag. revolvers I've chronograped with similar bullet weights. To achieve similar velocities, the .22 Mag requires a rifle length barrel, at least in my experience. Then, if you shoot the 5.7 out of a similar length barrel, it again out distances the .22 Mag. by a significant margin.


The FN pistol was very reliable, but a local dealer, who showed me a dealer sample PMR-30 months ago, has not been able to get any guns to actually sell. I saw the dealer a couple weeks ago and he indicated functional problems with the PMR-30, that the manufacturer is still trying to solve.

I don't know about self defense potential with either cartridge, but do believe 5.7 velocity and energy significantly exceeds .22 Mag in comparable barrel lengths... ymmv
 
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excellent post.

Also bear in mind that the bullet of the 5.7mm is a lot longer then a 22 WMR, this is causing the tumbling effect on penetration which causes a much wider wound channel then with the 22 WMR. I'm not saying the 22 WMR isn't capable, just that the 5.7mm is in a whole other league.
 
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