22LR vs Centerfire Handgun Reloads

B

BBarn

New member
Occasionally in one of the threads I'll read a comment about someone being able to reload rounds for less money than they can buy 22LR. While I enjoy reloading, I simply cannot make the math support that statement. Assuming quantities of a thousand or so rounds, you can buy 22LR plinking ammo for about $.05 per round. Centerfire primers cost at least $.025, and powder costs about $.01 for a small target load. That leaves $.015 for the bullet, much less than even a 9mm or 38 caliber lead bullet costs. Nor can you buy lead and cast a 115gr bullet for $.015. Even if you can find lead for $1.50 a pound, that's still about $.025 per bullet. Perhaps there is some dirty lead with other junk mixed in for a little less than $1 per pound around, in which case you might achieve something close to the cost of 22LR.

And all of that assumes the centerfire brass is free, which in the case of 9mm can be true if you have access to brass left on the ground at a range.

So am I missing something?
 
Some of this comparison harkens back to the "shortage days."

I don't think you are missing much.

The cheapest I can reload 9mm without casting my own bullets is 8.3 cents. That's using a store bought lead bullet. If I shoot plated bullets the cost jumps up to 11 or 12 cents.

Back in the "shortage days" there were times when the cheapest 22lr ammo I could find (and this was at a very large gun store in Indiana) was 10 cents a shot. During those shortage days I did buy some 22 lr for 12 and 13 cents a shot just so I could shoot those guns.

Currently it's not too hard to find 22 lr for 5 cents a shot. At a Scheels store a couple weeks ago I bought 22 lr for 4.3 cents a shot.

Life is good.
Prof Young
 
Beating the price of .22 LR ammo depends primarily on one's cost of lead. I have access to unlimited free spent bullet lead which, using the OP's figures, would put the cost of a handgun round at about $.035. I consider the cost at about $.05 per round.
 
Last edited:
What's true now wasn't true a couple of years ago when .22LR was almost non-existent and priced out of sight. A lot of older threads reflect that.
 
I think you are about right - certainly close enough to make a valid point. I don't see decent .22LR for 5 cents a round in these parts. A price of 7 to 10 cents a round narrows the gap a bit, but doesn't eliminate it.
 
It's my opinion that folks say that sort of thing for effect. If you call them out they'll usually respond that their primers came at $8 per thousand from an estate sale and they cast their own slugs.

I believe it is similar when guys CONSTANTLY claim that a light load they concocted in a .38 or .44 Special "well it kicks less than a .22!"

Yeah, that's crap and it isn't accurate. It's just something that gets regurgitated, like the story of the police officer who was found dead at the scene with six empty pieces of cartridge brass in his shirt pocket where he placed them (in the middle of a gun fight) because that was his training regimen and he defaulted to his training, and it got him killed.

Sure.
 
I think Sevens is mostly on the right track. A lot of it seems to be for effect, or to highlight the difference between an expensive handload and a cheap handload.

(...)That leaves $.015 for the bullet, much less than even a 9mm or 38 caliber lead bullet costs. Nor can you buy lead and cast a 115gr bullet for $.015. Even if you can find lead for $1.50 a pound, that's still about $.025 per bullet. Perhaps there is some dirty lead with other junk mixed in for a little less than $1 per pound around, in which case you might achieve something close to the cost of 22LR.
Click to expand...
Buying lead?
What is this witchcraft you speak of?!

In all seriousness...
Yes, buying casting alloy can be expensive.
But most of the cheapskate bullet casters don't buy certified alloy, and won't pay market price. If it isn't cheap, there's no deal.
I don't have much on hand right now - probably a couple hundred pounds, or so, of various alloys - but at least 30% of it is range lead that I scrounged, or scrap given to me by friends or family. Read that as "it only cost my time and labor, if that".

The majority of the remainder is actually "isotope core" alloy (and actual "cores"). Today, they're difficult to obtain, and sell for a premium when found. But when I bought my current supply about six years ago, I paid only $60 per pair, shipped. That's 65 lbs of known alloy, in good condition, with the only loss when melted being two small brass nutserts. That works out to $0.92/lb; or less than $0.02 per bullet when figuring for your 115 gr 9mm ($0.015, even counting some waste).


Do my cast bullets cost that little? Generally no. I mix in more expensive alloys, add gas checks, and/or shoot things that tend to be fairly heavy for caliber (more lead = more expensive).
I do have a 9mm load that costs next to nothing ... but it's because I bought multiple cases of commercial cast bullets 10+ years ago. $40 shipped, per 1,000; with a 10% discount for 4,000+ ($0.036/bullet). Last time I calculated the cost of that load, I came up with $4.23 / box (50). That cannot, however, be done at current replacement prices.

I was thinking the other day, and realized that I could, in theory, put together a 9mm load that cost me nothing: Free bullets (range lead and/or gifted to me). Free brass (range pickup). Free primers (gift). Free powder (gift). ...And even loaded with a set of dies that were a free and hidden 'bonus' in an auction lot.
It would not, however, be realistic to claim that the real cost was $0.00. ...It just didn't cost ME anything.
 
And all of that assumes the centerfire brass is free, which in the case of 9mm can be true if you have access to brass left on the ground at a range.

So am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Well, if you pick up the free brass, you don’t stop there. Walk down to the berm and pick up the lead too. I always go after a rain because they are little white dots above the dirt at that point.

Then all you have to buy is primers, powder and whatever lube, coating or plating you want to use.

My all time record was with 45 ACP at $18/1000.

These days using your 9mm example I load my cast and coated 147’s with 3.1 gn of powder and S&B primers I got for $20/1000 shipped. A lb of powder is 7000 grains so I can get 2258 charges out of $25 just over $11/1000. Add in the cost of coating and electricity and I’m in the $35 for a thousand rounds range.

That said time is also a factor and it can be time consuming going through the various process.

This is how I cast, coat and size with minimal effort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8tWaN5PrTY

Pick up everything at the range because it is faster than being picky and the other stuff I don’t want still has value to others and it’s fairly effortless for me to sort everything with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFw7IcQUmgs

All that’s left at that point is automation of the loading process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrFhnDQ-eUU
 
I can definitely reload 45 Colt cheaper than buying the same number of rounds of 22LR. Now, I believe that's what is called a factoid. It's sort-of-true. But it's based upon the premise that I've been given a lot of lead and plenty of powder as well. And when I shoot into a sandy hillside, I dig and remelt my lead. It also discounts one's time as valueless, which is absolutely false. I'm delighted that I can afford to even shoot a 45 Colt, thanks to favorable circumstance. But let's not be deceived about it, though its fun to joke about it. If you haven't done so already, go stock up on 22LR while you still can, because there will be another shortage and 22LR is the cheapest shot you can get in firearms.
 
It's wrong and you know it, so don't worry about the guys who either slept through math class or chose to leave their pencils at home. Facts are facts, you can get medium quality rimfire now for less than eight cents a round. You can't buy a bullet for five cents and primer and powder should run four or a nickle. Nobody can load anything bigger than a nine or a .38 for a dime without going to a lot of effort.

it ignores every principle of facts and truth to say a foolish thing like that.

AT ONE TIME I used to be able to reload or buy for the same price, a primer and powder cost two cents, as did a baseline rimfire. re-used my brass and cast my bullets, and gee, no matter how foolish it is to consider time as nothing, yes, I was running rimfire and nine mm at about the same price.

Oh, btw, which guns do you think used up the most dollar's worth of ammo? The ones that didn't require hours of reloading and casting work.
 
Last edited:
It's wrong and you know it, so don't worry about the guys who either slept through math class or chose to leave their pencils at home. Facts are facts, you can get medium quality rimfire now for less than eight cents a round.
Click to expand...

That’s $80/1000 costs me less than half that to load 1000 45, 38 or 9mm but it looks like you already knew that.

Oh, btw, which guns do you think used up the most dollar's worth of ammo? The ones that didn't require hours of reloading and casting work.
Click to expand...
 
BBarn said:
Occasionally in one of the threads I'll read a comment about someone being able to reload rounds for less money than they can buy 22LR. While I enjoy reloading, I simply cannot make the math support that statement. Assuming quantities of a thousand or so rounds, you can buy 22LR plinking ammo for about $.05 per round. Centerfire primers cost at least $.025, and powder costs about $.01 for a small target load. That leaves $.015 for the bullet, much less than even a 9mm or 38 caliber lead bullet costs. Nor can you buy lead and cast a 115gr bullet for $.015. Even if you can find lead for $1.50 a pound, that's still about $.025 per bullet. Perhaps there is some dirty lead with other junk mixed in for a little less than $1 per pound around, in which case you might achieve something close to the cost of 22LR.

And all of that assumes the centerfire brass is free, which in the case of 9mm can be true if you have access to brass left on the ground at a range.

So am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Yes you are missing something. I don't recall the cost's anymore but at one time I did figure it out and reloading handgun's was less expensive. Bullet cost is where it's at. Other than my carry gun, I haven't bought bullet's in a whole lot of years, cast. And even then I've never paid for lead, all free stuff! I have enough lead stored up to last me the rest of my life and most of my son's, all free!
 
I sure wish some gun manufacture would add the 32 ACP caliber to their small rifle listing. 32 ACP is a much better close range and reliable cartridge to replace the 22LR than the 9MM would be~ in my opinion.
3-grs of powder and a 71 gr bullet. How could a home reloader not like ~cheap with a wallop!!
 
FWIW (not much!); I like to read these "how much it costs" threads as it reminds me why I don't count pennies for my handloads. I reload for 9 calibers, 15 guns, use both home cast and jacketed bullets, and have no idea what my handloads cost (not a spend thrift either. And I don't compare the cost of my bait, transportation, fishing license, etc. to what salmon costs at the fish market). I have purchased only 3 boxes of factory ammo in the last 20 years so I can't compare either. I reload because I like to...

I understand some have fun with math and counting money, that's cool, just not for me...:D
 
22lr happened to be the cheapest cartridge, and it is difficult and not cheap to handload. The comparison is unfair and unwise.

It is better to compare same cartridge, which is practically handloadable. With that, handloading is always cheaper, significantly cheaper in some cases. One doesn't need to try too hard to prove that.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
"...depends primarily on..." Where you are and what you're paying for .22's. A box of .22 ammo starts at about $5Cdn. in Cabela's Canada. Either way, reloading is about the quality of the ammo you're using, not the price.
 
That’s $80/1000 costs me less than half that to load 1000 45, 38 or 9mm but it looks like you already knew that.
Click to expand...

Explain what process you take that a normal, average person would have to go through to load .45 for four cents a round so we can see exactly what it takes to shoot centerfire for less than rimfire.

Average reloader will have to buy a bullet, powder, primers, and that's going to reach ten cents, IF that guy never pays shipping or other expenses, such as sales tax that would be added to most purchases.

Powder and primer just by themselves bought from a company, for example, grafs, will run four to five cents all on its own, and I'm not sure how an average guy could find powder and primers for less than four cents. You can't afford to pay shipping costs, and I'm darned if I know of a local gun shop that will supply an ordinary guy so inexpensively.

What you are saying to me is that you only buy powder and primer for less than four cents and everything else is free, I suppose, you don't spend anything on alloy or lube, and don't have any waste.

Frankly, I don't believe you that you can reload .45 for much less than four cents. A primer at graf's, a great discount place, will cost two, and 231 will also cost two for a charge. If you can do it for 3 cents, you're doing something that would be nearly impossible for anyone else.

Nobody can unless they scrape around for the cheapest components available, create their own bullets out of free scrap, cast their bullets over a campfire of collected driftwood.

If a guy is willing to go through all of that just to get the lowest possible unit price, Fine. A certain very small segment of society who is willing and ready to do all of that can load for less than four cents a round. Personally, if I had the choice of going through all of that trouble, I know of a whole lot of ways to get .22 LR for about four or five cents a round.

You can load 9 mm for 3.5 cents, you say. I'll believe that. That is the exact cost of a primer and a minimum charge of powder with no taxes or shipping or hazmat on any of them.

But, let me reframe what I said. Reloading means putting new components into a case. Casting your own bullets with free salvaged lead and using them as free materials isn't actually a part of the 'reloading' process. I don't believe that there are more than one in hundreds of people who are capable of that, and you shouldn't hold yourself up as an example that 'anyone can do it.' The time you put into casting your own and finding free lead alone is enough for me to say "not in this lifetime." Most people would agree.

What you are saying is a classic generalization argument. just because it is possible that something can be done, it's something that everyone can do just as easily, and that just isn't a fact.
 
I get lead for free and cast my bullets for 9mm/45. I can only go cheaper than 22lr if I get primers at a discount. Powder is crazy-expensive here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Explain what process you take that a normal, average person would have to go through to load .45 for four cents a round so we can see exactly what it takes to shoot centerfire for less than rimfire.
Click to expand...

I shoot at outdoor ranges (competitions but I also have a range at home where I do the same things). After the match and tear down, go pick up brass then go to the berm and pick up bullets.

Now go home and put the free brass in a tumbler and melt the bullets into ingots. Now that you have your free lead, cast them into bullets and coat or lube them and size.

It helps to buy in bulk if you are going to pay hazmat fees and you can get reduced prices but there is a Cabelas in the city that has sales from time to time and S&B primers for $21.64/1000 after tax, a pound of clays for $22.72 after tax. I can load 1891 rounds charged with 3.7 grains from that pound of powder. So I am using $12.01 worth of powder for 1000 rounds. I use hi-tek coating on my bullets and it takes another $5 in materials for that part. That brings the total to $38.65/per 1000, 230 grain 45 ACP rounds.

As for “not for everyone”, I agree. If it was, factory ammunition wouldn’t exist. If it wasn’t something anyone wanted to do though, all the products we use wouldn’t exist either. Not to mention there wouldn’t be any of the free stuff people left behind, to pick up.
 
Last edited:
But, let me reframe what I said. Reloading means putting new components into a case. Casting your own bullets with free salvaged lead and using them as free materials isn't actually a part of the 'reloading' process. I don't believe that there are more than one in hundreds of people who are capable of that, and you shouldn't hold yourself up as an example that 'anyone can do it.' The time you put into casting your own and finding free lead alone is enough for me to say "not in this lifetime." Most people would agree.
Click to expand...
Anyone can do it.
Some people just don't know where to start, don't want to start, don't think it's worth their time, or don't think the process would be enjoyable.

As for reusing materials not being part of "reloading".... What, exactly, does that mean for the brass that you're using? The inferrence, based on your theory, is that "reloading" is an incorrect term, to begin with, because the "re" should not exist. The act of reusing components or materials not being part of "(re)loading" would, after all, mean that your definition requires buying new cases for every load.

I believe you are stuck on "handloading", which may include using 100% new components; and have forgotten that "reloading" is, by definition, a recycling of some or all suitable materials.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top