I am considering another 22 handgun. I have a Ruger 22/45 ith the valquartzen upgrades and it has been flawless as well as very accurate. My daughter is now shooting with me regularly and it would be nice to have a second. Originally I was considering a Kadet kit and a CZ75. Kadets are like hens teeth. I am not looking for a bargain gun but I also dont want to drop $1000 either. Outside of Ruger Mark and Browning Buckmark what should I be looking at?
22lr for accuracy
- Thread starter BoogieMan
- Start date
+1 for the S&W Victory. I tried one recently and was surprised at how solid it felt shooting it.
I also shot an 85% Browning 1911 .22LR, which I always thought was kind of a dumb idea and I shot it VERY well. I was really surprised at this one.
http://www.browning.com/products/firearms/pistols/1911-22.html
All the more surprising because I had a Colt conversion unit on a 1911 that I did not like at all.
I also shot an 85% Browning 1911 .22LR, which I always thought was kind of a dumb idea and I shot it VERY well. I was really surprised at this one.
http://www.browning.com/products/firearms/pistols/1911-22.html
All the more surprising because I had a Colt conversion unit on a 1911 that I did not like at all.
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Boogie, If you're a 1911 or one of the Sigs shooter, you might consider one of the .22 LR upper assemblies. I have them for several of my guns: Two Ruger 1911's, and a Sig P226. The Sig units are about half the cost of a new gun ~$350 for the Sig branded unit. For the 1911's there are units by Marvel, Ciener, Colt & Advantage Arms to name a few. All of the above are superbly accurate, much better than the original caliber guns in fact.
There are several advantages to this course of action: first, you have the same trigger, grip and feel of the gun to work with. Giving you a great understudy on the bigger caliber.
Overall cost is the 2nd advantage...they're cheaper, generally, than an entire new gun. And I can speak to the accuracy...the above units I mentioned, with the exception of the old Colt "sliding" chamber model, are accurate enough for all but the most demanding NRA Bullseye competition.
The last point is that with that .22 unit in place, your center fire gun's weight is substantially less...making it that much more adaptable to a young person's strength, but still retains the trigger, feel and accuracy that you need for effective training. In truth, I'd use mine more if .22's were less expensive...as I cast my own bullets, I can actually load 9mm & .45 ACP for less than .22LR!!
My units have been nearly 100% reliable if kept clean...ie. the barrel breach face, bolt face and chamber area. And all of them use CLP on the rails vs. the weapons grease I normally employ with the center fire uppers in place.
Here's a pic of one of mine on a Ruger SR1911. This is a marvel and the target was shot with bulk, Remington Golden .22 solids. It's a good option if you already own one of the center fire guns.
Best Regards, Rod
There are several advantages to this course of action: first, you have the same trigger, grip and feel of the gun to work with. Giving you a great understudy on the bigger caliber.
Overall cost is the 2nd advantage...they're cheaper, generally, than an entire new gun. And I can speak to the accuracy...the above units I mentioned, with the exception of the old Colt "sliding" chamber model, are accurate enough for all but the most demanding NRA Bullseye competition.
The last point is that with that .22 unit in place, your center fire gun's weight is substantially less...making it that much more adaptable to a young person's strength, but still retains the trigger, feel and accuracy that you need for effective training. In truth, I'd use mine more if .22's were less expensive...as I cast my own bullets, I can actually load 9mm & .45 ACP for less than .22LR!!
My units have been nearly 100% reliable if kept clean...ie. the barrel breach face, bolt face and chamber area. And all of them use CLP on the rails vs. the weapons grease I normally employ with the center fire uppers in place.
Here's a pic of one of mine on a Ruger SR1911. This is a marvel and the target was shot with bulk, Remington Golden .22 solids. It's a good option if you already own one of the center fire guns.
Best Regards, Rod
@rodfac- I like the idea. But, the CZ Kadet units are not around anywhere for fair money. Im on the list. I own 2-1911s. One is a very intact and pristine 41' Colt and the other is a highly modified Kimber Target II. I dont shoot the Colt very often so it stays pristine and I dont think the Kimber unit will fit the modified 9mm frame. I will check into this a little further. I have 3 permits (NJ Thing) for handguns now. 1 is used on a C&R, 2nd is used on a CZ75. 3rd is up for grabs. Maybe another 1911 would be a good choice.
In 9 out of 10 cases, what makes a 22 pistol accurate to an individual shooter is his own abilities. So guns feel better and have better trigger pulls than others.
Most fixed barrel 22 are far more accurate than the shooter can hold.
Years ago I did work for 3 national Guard pistol teams. One of their top shooters was a man named Paul E. Paul bought a Ruger standard model pistol for his son and one day he asked me if he could use our Ransom Rest if he bought the grip adapters. I said"sure, anyone can use it if i don't need it at the time for a N.G. gun"
So he bought his own adapters for the Ruger and a also a few others he owned.
About 1 month later he handed me a test target that was SUPER tight. I assumed it was from his issue S&W M41. Nope! it was from the Ruger. I was stunned. It was actually tighter than some of the 41s in the armory would hold.
He could not shoot the Ruger as well for score as he could with the 41, but that's not because the Ruger was less accurate. it was because the 41 has a better trigger and fit his hand better
So I would say to buy a gun that you LIKE better than others and shoot it until you wear it out (not really possible with most guns)
That is what's going to turn you into an expert shot.
Most fixed barrel 22 are far more accurate than the shooter can hold.
Years ago I did work for 3 national Guard pistol teams. One of their top shooters was a man named Paul E. Paul bought a Ruger standard model pistol for his son and one day he asked me if he could use our Ransom Rest if he bought the grip adapters. I said"sure, anyone can use it if i don't need it at the time for a N.G. gun"
So he bought his own adapters for the Ruger and a also a few others he owned.
About 1 month later he handed me a test target that was SUPER tight. I assumed it was from his issue S&W M41. Nope! it was from the Ruger. I was stunned. It was actually tighter than some of the 41s in the armory would hold.
He could not shoot the Ruger as well for score as he could with the 41, but that's not because the Ruger was less accurate. it was because the 41 has a better trigger and fit his hand better
So I would say to buy a gun that you LIKE better than others and shoot it until you wear it out (not really possible with most guns)
That is what's going to turn you into an expert shot.
For you or her? Makes a difference. The thing has to fit the shooter. If your Ruger fits her hand buy another.
Then you get to try a box of as many brands of ammo as you can to find the ammo it shoots best. There are no guarantees the same ammo will shoot(or even cycle) in two identical firearms.
Then you get to try a box of as many brands of ammo as you can to find the ammo it shoots best. There are no guarantees the same ammo will shoot(or even cycle) in two identical firearms.
redlightrich
New member
Hello Boogie, the CZ 75 kits are available and reasonable now. If you are making your statement about them based on prices in December and earlier, that changed again. CZ has a bad habit of shipping items sporadically, and when stock dries up, prices go up.
There are many dealers that have them at 400 or so. BTW, in my opinion, the CZ makes one of the best 22lr conversion kits available. I have many different kits, so I do have a good point of reference.
In NJ, kits make even more sense.
I also hear good things about the Nelson kit for the 1911
Good luck
Rich
There are many dealers that have them at 400 or so. BTW, in my opinion, the CZ makes one of the best 22lr conversion kits available. I have many different kits, so I do have a good point of reference.
In NJ, kits make even more sense.
I also hear good things about the Nelson kit for the 1911
Good luck
Rich
snowman748
New member
Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory OR Ruger IV in my opinion. I've heard the IV is having some growing pains since it's so new to the market (reliability) but those are probably just rumors. I personally own a SW22 Victory and love it. My 7 year old also loves it. She's been shooting it since she was 5 and has loved it since day one. I've let several other kids shoot it and always with great success. It's quite accurate out of the box but as your daughter grows you can change and make upgrades to it from Tandemkross or Volquartsen. Triggers, barrels, grips, etc.
And, of course, that's the unit I've got. The 'floating chamber' Colt conversion unit that I've bad mouthed here before. But as I've mentioned before my experience is with ONE Colt Conversion unit. Maybe others have had better results.
Still, if you decide to go with a conversion unit maybe take rodfac's advice on the subject.
Will the 1911 kits work on 9mm 1911's. I have never compared the magazine well with a 45 model. I dont thin the rest will matter.
I did a little search for the CZ Kadet kits. I am pleased to find that they are available at a reasonable price $370. Anyone use one? If they are decent it seems like the answer to my problem. I can always customize the 22/45 for my daughter. New grips and Muddy Girl aqua dip and she will be pleased.
I did a little search for the CZ Kadet kits. I am pleased to find that they are available at a reasonable price $370. Anyone use one? If they are decent it seems like the answer to my problem. I can always customize the 22/45 for my daughter. New grips and Muddy Girl aqua dip and she will be pleased.
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I've had a CZ Kadet Kit since 2000, and have used it on my 75B, and 75D PCR all these years. I also have four Ruger MK II's which are also stellar, accurate and reliable. However, the Kadet Kit is just about as accurate, and more fun to shoot. Bite the bullet, and get the Kadet Kit. It always goes to the range with me.
Late reply...the Ciener, Advantage Arms, and Marvel .22 Units that I mentioned in my post above work very well on .45 caliber Ruger SR1911's (both 5" and Commander length), also on a Series 70 Colt Gold Cup and a WWll Remington-Rand 1911A1...oddly enough, all of these guns, even the WWll 1911A1 are equally accurate with the .22 Units installed. However, none of them will work on my 5" bbl'd, Series 70 Colt 9mm.
The Colt sliding chamber upper will work only on the Gold Cup.
Of them all, I prefer the Marvel which has a very slight accuracy (less than a 1/4" at 25 yds). Best Regards, Rod
The Colt sliding chamber upper will work only on the Gold Cup.
Of them all, I prefer the Marvel which has a very slight accuracy (less than a 1/4" at 25 yds). Best Regards, Rod
Walt Sherrill
New member
If you just want a .22, then several of the suggestions cited above make sense.
I have had several Rugers, the best being a Stainless Government Model with the long slab-sided barrel. I thought it great, until I got a Kadet Kit for my CZ-85 Combat. I then traded the Government model away (for a very nice Witness Sport Long Slide in .45), because the Kadet Kit was every bit as accurate and I liked the how the CZ frame on which is runs fits my hand. (You may be able to order one from the CZ Custom Shop -- as they sometimes get preferential treatment when new shipments arrive.)
I think the Kadet Kit is one of the best Conversions you can get, but a .22 Marvel Kit mounted on a 1911 (9mm?) frame would clearly outshoot it. The kits would go for about the same $$ (i.e., Marvel or Kadet.) Most of the other conversion kits don't come close. (I still have a Ruger MKII, just not one of the pricey ones.) If you already have a 1911 in the gun safe, the Marvel would be the way to go.
If you don't have a 1911, then looking at one of the newer polymer CZs, the P-07 (I have one) with a Kadet Kit (made for that model) might be a good choice. The P-07 and P-09 are nice guns.
I have had several Rugers, the best being a Stainless Government Model with the long slab-sided barrel. I thought it great, until I got a Kadet Kit for my CZ-85 Combat. I then traded the Government model away (for a very nice Witness Sport Long Slide in .45), because the Kadet Kit was every bit as accurate and I liked the how the CZ frame on which is runs fits my hand. (You may be able to order one from the CZ Custom Shop -- as they sometimes get preferential treatment when new shipments arrive.)
I think the Kadet Kit is one of the best Conversions you can get, but a .22 Marvel Kit mounted on a 1911 (9mm?) frame would clearly outshoot it. The kits would go for about the same $$ (i.e., Marvel or Kadet.) Most of the other conversion kits don't come close. (I still have a Ruger MKII, just not one of the pricey ones.) If you already have a 1911 in the gun safe, the Marvel would be the way to go.
If you don't have a 1911, then looking at one of the newer polymer CZs, the P-07 (I have one) with a Kadet Kit (made for that model) might be a good choice. The P-07 and P-09 are nice guns.
rt11002003
New member
The only .22lr conversion kit that performed satisfactorily for me was the one that came with my SIG p210; a package, same SN's ,etc. I've only tried a couple of others so don't have a lot experience to pass on. However, the experience I had was not good in any way.
I view kits as a matter of mfg. tolerances. If the kit is mfgd. for a specific handgun, and the tolerances fall into place there's no reason it shouldn't be satisfactory.
With that said, I prefer the gun to be made for the specific caliber cartridge. For the money, my Ruger Mk iii Target and the Mk iii TALO Hunter are winners. They're better balanced and as accurate as the longer barrel models: in my case Mk ii Government Target and Mk iii Competition Target. All of them use the Volquartsen Accurizing Kits.
For more money, the Hammerli Xesse Sport is hard to beat.
Then, for a bit more money, the S&W Model 41 is a great performer.
Depending on how I'm shooting, it's a toss up between the M41 and the Hammerli for accuracy.
I view kits as a matter of mfg. tolerances. If the kit is mfgd. for a specific handgun, and the tolerances fall into place there's no reason it shouldn't be satisfactory.
With that said, I prefer the gun to be made for the specific caliber cartridge. For the money, my Ruger Mk iii Target and the Mk iii TALO Hunter are winners. They're better balanced and as accurate as the longer barrel models: in my case Mk ii Government Target and Mk iii Competition Target. All of them use the Volquartsen Accurizing Kits.
For more money, the Hammerli Xesse Sport is hard to beat.
Then, for a bit more money, the S&W Model 41 is a great performer.
Depending on how I'm shooting, it's a toss up between the M41 and the Hammerli for accuracy.