223 worth reloading?

[Metal god]

[QUOTE
And to the guy asking if I grocery shopped,][/QUOTE]

Yeah I think that's the same guy that says his blasting ammo shoots "about" moa lol . As to the quote I asked if you try to save money buy paying someone to do it for you . The analogy works with anything one does . Do you pay someone to go to your neighbors to pick up that live stock that way you save the money it would cost you to waste your time going there . The analogy's are truly endless , do you account for and put a price on every second of your day . If you don't why are you saying others should ( apply a cost to there "free" time ) when you don't ?

When I say about it is making the point that my "blasting" reloads consistently shoot twice as good as any factory "blasting" ammo . We all know anything "around" 2 moa for factory "blasting" ammo is pretty good . Well mine are "around" 1moa . FWIW you are correct in saying it's blasting ammo and as such I rarely shoot it for groups . The moa calculation came during load development where the initial five shot group was sub moa and the subsequent 10 shot confirmation group was 1.2 moa . A 20 shot group would likely be 1.5+a moa group and a 50 shot group would likely be 2.5+ moa etc etc . So I have no problem saying this specific load shoots about moa .

Please don't take all this personally or as an attack on you . I'm just having a friendly conversation here . I do respect your knowledge here at TFL but don't agree with these one or two things

 

[Unclenick]

Statistically, the larger the number of shots in the group, the more opportunities you give the less probable POI's out at the tails of the bell curve to show up. For that reason, average size always grows with the number of shots in the group.

 

[Metal god]

UN , that was my very point .

The moa calculation came during load development where the initial five shot group was sub moa and the subsequent 10 shot confirmation group was 1.2 moa . A 20 shot group would likely be 1.5+a moa group and a 50 shot group would likely be 2.5+ moa etc etc . So I have no problem saying this specific load shoots about moa

At what number of shots do you get to say that's what the load shoots . Some say 5 others say 10 while even others say 20+ . It's why I said about moa . The point was a general idea as to what I can load a $.20 round to do .

I could take it one step further and say . If a load shoots moa 99 times and one time 1.75 moa , That is a moa load . I understand for purposes of putting meat on the table or saving ones life I need to think of it as , 1.75 moa is all I should expect from that load but that IMO has to do with me and my ability and not the load it self .

 

[JeepHammer]

COZ, I grow potatoes that way, don't know why a bullet trap made that way didn't occur to me...

MG, do what you want, it's your time & money.
My time & money is better spent on one ragged hole at 100 yds or house cat at 400 yards.

 

[3006loader]

Well, for me to answer that properly you'd have to define what "worth it" means to you. There are many benefits to reloading such as having more control over what you shoot in your gun, making unique loads, unavailable to the public, an increase in precision, a decrease in price (sometimes), it being a fun hobby, and higher availability of the specific ammo you are loading for, because if the stores don't have loaded cartridges in stock, they, or you may have bullets, primers and powder.

I am going to assume you mean "is it cheaper than factory ammo" based on your question.

Bulk bullets are $0.08 a piece, $0.11-$0.13 if not in bulk, powder will be about $0.09 per round, and mil spec primers are $0.04 a piece. This assumes you get your brass for free. If free brass is impossible for you to get add $0.05 per round, assuming you get 10 uses out of them. So the absolute cheapest you can load .223 for is about 20-25 cents per round.

Tula steel case ammo can be had for around $0.20 per round if in bulk, $0.23 if not in bulk. However, the cheapest brass cased ammo goes for $0.29-$0.35 per round. So apples to apples, you will save around $0.08 per round. And these are all plinking quality, not match. If you take the time to carefully measure each powder charge and watch your seating depth, you can make "semi match" ammo. Spend a bit more on some high quality bullets and you can have real match ammo. It becomes more cost effective when you take your time to make sure everything is precisely measured. Ammo factories charge extra for the extra time and quality control measures they have to take to make high quality match ammo, but it doesn't cost you anything other than time when you do it.

If you got through all that then you probably realize there are a lot of factors to consider. If you are just going to be plinking then reloading .223 may not be worth it for you. For me the unique loads and greater availability make it completely worth it, no matter what caliber. If you want to make unique loads, need to kill some time, and want to have greater ammo availability then I would say spend the $40 on a lee die set, experiment and have fun!

 

[5whiskey]

I see a bunch of 'About a MOA' written...
First off, it's either under MOA or it's Over MOA CONSISTATLY.
There isn't an 'About' to it...

Metal God answered this perfectly. I use the same formula bench rest guys compete at... 5 round groups. I call the rifle what 5 consecutive round groups will consistently measure at, but I also understand that if I shoot 10 rounds my .92 average moa rifle will probably put those 10 rounds into more like a 1.2moa group. As you have said, not just one 5 round group should measure .92 inches at 100 yards to be a 1moa rifle... but virtually every group fired. At least 9 out of 10.

I have not seen ANY blasting ammo that will shoot under a MOA in any rifle. Period.
And I have been doing this a very long time.

I have been doing this a very long time as well. Period. And it depends on what you call "blasting ammo." I reload what I consider my "blasting ammo" with bulk hornady spire points, and can come out to around 20 cents a round. That's cheap shooting, but it will in fact shoot an honest 1 moa. Period. Not very much under that, as I am hindered from achieving 1/2moa or better by the fact that I am loading bulk projectiles to save money. For what I use my AR for, 1 moa is plenty good enough. I have several other rifles capable of less than 1/2 moa groups if I'm doing nothing but trying to make a tiny group at long range (much more than 100 yards).

To your last point, I certainly understand your argument about time and money. I spend a considerable amount of time making my "blasting ammo" as I inspect every piece of brass, trim every case, measure every powder charge by both weight and volume, and add a considerable number of steps for quality control. I enjoy it, is a hobby. But I understand someone who does not have time to sink a couple of hours into turning out 100 rounds of .223 ammo when you're really only saving about 15 cents per round.