.223 subsonic that cycles an AR-15...

cchardwick

New member
I saw a video on youtube that showed .223 ammo that cycled an AR-15 and was used specifically for a suppressor but I can't seem to find the video or the manufacturer that made the ammunition. Anyone know who makes this ammo? It was real quiet using a silencer, you couldn't even tell it was a gun shooting (it sounded like a typewriter).
 
Can you post a link to the video? I have not heard of any subsonic 223 ammo that will cycle a standard ar-15. There are some uppers with the gas tube in the carbine or pistol position, in other words close to the chamber where the pressure is high enough to cycle the action using subsonic loads.

Camcorders do a poor job of showing how loud or quiet a silencer is.

Ranb
 
Now that I think about it, I don't think the video was on Youtube. I think it was a manufacturers video for ammo specifically for silencers. I don't think it was a frangable but here's something similar. Looks like it will only cycle in a suppressed AR-15, maybe because of the increased backpressure of the silencer:

http://tinyurl.com/5vyyl2
 
Extreme Shock Subsonic Covert-Ops Specialty Ammunition

Oh man, this stuff is so tactical!:rolleyes:

What is the point of shooting subsonic .223 ammo? It's going to pack no punch, perhaps for shooting tree rats?
 
Advantages:

I can shoot all day with my AR-15 with no hearing protection (subsonic + silencer).

If I had subsonic reloading data I could reload my own and shoot real cheap.

At subsonic loads I could probably reload the brass a hundred times with minimal case wear.

Shooting the AR-15 with subsonic will familiarize new shooters and very young shooters to the AR-15 system.

Loading way down will allow me to get another 'feature' out of my AR-15. This would be the bb-gun feature (vs. changing the upper and getting the 50 BMG feature)

:cool:
 
Or,

one could buy a .22 conversion kit, buy factory ammo, shoot all day for pennies, wear no hearing protection, and not have to worry about the chance of a squib because you forgot to load powder into the case.

Even quieter with a supressor.

Not sure how many companies will honor a warranty when they find out you were shooting reloads.
 
I was trying to develop a 223 subsonic load for my ar-15 using surplus WC820 (like H110) powder last year because they are much better powerwise than 22lr.

60 grain Aguilla SSS at 700 fps is 65 ft-lbs
40 grain std vel at 1050 fps is 98 ft-lbs.

55 grain 223rem at 1050 fps is 134 ft-lbs
69 grain 223rem at 1050 fps is 168 ft-lbs
80 grain 223rem at 1050 fps is 195 ft-lbs

The difference is clear. It is wimpy, but lets see a raise of hands for those willing to take one in the gut. :)

I'm not sure how well a 22 conversion kit shooting rimfire bullets in a centerfire barrel works, but I hear they do not do as well as a dedicated 22lr ar-15 upper. My limited load development gave me about 2 moa. I was able to stablize the speer 70 grain round nose and the 55 grain FMJ, but not the 69 grain and higher match grade bullets in my 1-9 twist ar-15 when shooting subsonic. None of them cycled the action enough to pick up the next round either.

I am thinking that if I were to get a ar-15 pistol, attach a stock and 16 1/4" barrel, remove any buffer weights and chop the spring, I may be able to make something that works semi-auto, but that is not in my budget now.

I could care less about warranties on my guns. The only ones that ever see factory ammo are the rimfire and 7.62x36 or 7.62x54R guns.

Ranb

Edited to add; I do not have a warranty on my silencers as they are homemade on form 1's (< $50 + tax). :) If a load does not keyhole at 100 yards, then I consider it safe to use suppressed. I can fix small stuff, but if I really shred the internals, then I will just chop up the can and make another one on a new form 1.
 
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I think he may have been talking about a warranty on the suppressor, a Class 3 weapon which is not only expensive but a pain in the but to purchase. (I still have months to wait before I get my first suppressor that I ordered a month ago).
 
I haven't found any that will cycle my AR-15, but BOY are Clays/55gr bullet loads quiet as hell with a silencer on there...
 
FOUND IT! Here's the website that has subsonic that will cycle in a full auto rifle:

http://www.ebr-inc.net/556Subsonic.html

5.56mm NATO/.223 Subsonic

EBR's 5.56 Subsonic cycling ammunition has been designed to be used in situations where firepower is more of a consideration than complete stealth. It reliably functions in M4 weapons and burns exceptionally clean. The receiver shown in the video had just had 60 rounds of EBR 5.56 Subsonic put through it in a very short time. Restricted, please call.
 
It was actually an article from Advanced Armament Corporation that pointed me in the right direction. I've ordered an AAC M4-2000 silencer and this is what they say:

Using EBR subsonic ammunition the M4s sound signature with AAC's M4-2000 is within 6 db of the click made by pulling the trigger of a Ruger 10/22 on an empty chamber!
 
Anybody who thinks that subsonic .223 is similar to a pellet gun or .22 LR needs to put some thought into this before they post on the internet.

However, I am willing to change my mind. So those of you comparing subsonic .223 to a pellet rifle or a .22 LR please give us your direct first hand experience that you are basing this on.

This stuff gets discussed almost every day on some internet gun forum or another. Here is the last thread on the subject I participated in. Note that one or two people really had any actual experience and the rest are just tourists dealing in speculation. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=20&t=255870
 
I am not one of those that will claim that any subsonic centerfire will beat the 22lr in noise when suppressed. I was just saying that the 22lr is limited and there is room for the 223 remington.

Ranb
 
444:

I have direct experience with subsonic 36gr and 40gr 22lr, and direct experience with subsonic 45, 50, and 55gr .223.

BY FAR, the best of the lot is the 55gr .223 going ~975FPS, in terms of downrange impact on cute little squirrels. :D

My favorite load is 3.1gr of Clays with a 55gr Combined Technology ballistic tip "varmint bullet" going about 975FPS... may or may not be safe in your guns, not my problem if it isn't. ;)


BUT, yes, it's slightly louder through my AR-15 and PLR-16 with an M4-1000 ('08 manufacture) than .22lr through a 10/22 with a TAC-63 (with -65 baffles).
 
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I am not trying to put anyone on the spot here so let me just say this:

1) A 77 grain jacketed bullet (or even a 55 grain jacketed bullet) driven to somewhere around 1100 fps gives you significantly more performance downrange than any .22LR or pellet rifle ever dreamed of.

2) Using a different upper to convert an AR15 to .22LR or using a .22LR conversion kit has nothing to do with subsonic .223. One isn't a subsitute for the other. They are solutions to two entirely different problems. I have never understood why they are even mentioned in the same thread.



Not that it matters but just for the sake of discussion, does anyone have any data on the energy of an air rifle pellet at 1100 fps ?
I shoot a lot of pellets. I just went in and grabbed a tin of .177 caliber RWS Supermag pellets. The weight of the pellet is 9.3 grains. The rifle I shoot them out of is not capable of 1100 fps but there are air rifles that advertise velocities in that neighborhood. They are considered among the most powerful pellet rifles ever made so I think we would be safe in using them as a reference. Let's use 9.3 grains at 1100 fps. What kind of energy does that give you and how does that compare to a 77 grain Sierra Match King open tipped, boat tailed bullet at 1100 fps. ?
 
See, I thought you were arguing that the subsonic .223 was less useful than a .22lr! My mistake, friend. :o

100% agreed that subsonic .223 is FAR harder hitting (especially with the bullet selection!) than .22lr. FAR harder hitting.




Also...

http://www.ebr-inc.net/556Subsonic.html said:
Restricted, please call.

:rolleyes:

Yes, us little citizens aren't worthy.
 
I was under the impression that a .223 had to reach a certain velocity in order preform.

What's the point of shooting a round at a reduced velocity knowing that isn't going to preform like it should?
 
1) A 77 grain jacketed bullet (or even a 55 grain jacketed bullet) driven to somewhere around 1100 fps gives you significantly more performance downrange than any .22LR or pellet rifle ever dreamed of.

I have both, a 77grain @ 1050 = 188 ft/lb and a 40grain @ 1050 = 98 ft lb (not sure if squirrels know the difference), but I did notice bullets designed to expand at 3000+ fps do not do so at 1000fps.

I quit messing with subsonic 223 when I built my suppressed 9mm upper. A 147grain at 1050 (360 ft/lb) is significantly more energy than a SS .223 or 22lr. The bullets are also running much closer to the speed they were designed for.

FWIW a standard 22 magnum 40 grain @ 1875 fps has 312ft/lb so none of the above are what I would call “powerful”. My next project (when the paper work gets here) will be a suppressed 45/70 pushing a 500grain at 1050 (1224 ft/lb).
 
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