.223 rifle, Ruger vs Savage

I have a Ruger Hawkeye in 223. 9 twist. It shot great when new, but I just had to tweak this and that, so it isn’t “stock” anymore. Great rifle, but I would like an equally accurate lighter rifle. Without question, i’d get a Tikka. Go work the bolt on a Tikka, then the RAR and the Savage. You’ll see.
 
RC20 said:
I would go with Savage both on price and being able to replace the barrel easily .

Ruger American rifles use the barrel nut system as well, it's just as easy to swap a barrel on them as it is a Savage. The only drawback is you'll probably have to fabricate a barrel nut wrench or pay someone to do it. However, there are replacement barrel nuts out there you can purchase to make the next barrel swap easier.
 
Unless you are familiar with, and have shot the packaged scope, i would stay away from the combo's.

My axis package came with a cheap scope and rings that are now doing duty on a air rifle.

I am sure you will enjoy either rifle. 223 bolt's are alot of fun.
 
I posted earlier that I would take the Savage over any other sub-$1000 rifle made today. I was posting from my phone at the time, so let me add a little bit to that.

First of all, I didn't own a Savage rifle before less than a year ago. The first one I bought was the 10T-SR. I was looking to get into long range shooting and really didn't have anything in particular in mind but I went into a store and they had this rifle on sale and for the price of less than $500, I thought I would give it a chance (I was expecting to spend around $1500). I had a buddy that shot club level F-Class matches and he used a Savage and gave me his run down on why he went with a Savage and since I knew him to be a meticulous type of guy, he convinced me. So, I bought the rifle and it shot great. Not just good, great. I started shooting long range at a private range and various regulars there tried my rifle and every one of them said, if they had known you could get a rifle that shot like that, for that kind of money, they would definitely buy one. This rifle is in 6.5 Creedmoor. Another reason I chose this rifle besides price and reputation was that it was threaded for a suppressor (that is the SR in the model number: suppressor ready): I owned a .30 rifle suppressor and this was just one less thing I had to do to use it.

At that range, I met a guy that had a Savage-Ashbury rifle in .308 that he wanted to trade me for a .308 rifle I had. I traded him and started wringing out my new rifle. I fired over 40 different handloads with two different bullets, three different powders; 40 different loads in all, five shot groups, and I got to 40 loads before I had one five shot group go over an inch at 100 yards.

So at this point I owned two Savage rifles, both of which shot terrific for an out of the box, factory rifle. Based on this and the ease of changing Savage barrels and bolt heads, when I saw the sale at Cabelas, I ordered two of those 12FV rifles.

So here are a few of the reasons I would go with Savage:
For an out of the box, factory rifle, I seriously doubt you will get anything that shoots better.

The price on these things is incredible. I am not normally a price shopper. I buy what I think is the best thing I can afford. But, I certainly don't just ignore price. And for a rifle that shoots like these do for less than $350 ? You can't go wrong. On my 6.5 Creed, I have a $2500 scope on it. In part, I could afford this level of optic because I paid $400 for the rifle. And the rifle shoots good enough to get the most out of this caliber of optic.

The barrel nut. Barrels are a consumable item in rifles just like bullets and powder. If you shoot as much as I do, you are going to replace barrels. And with the Savage, you can do this at home with a few readily available tools. There are plenty of pre-chambered barrels available from major barrel manufacturers ready to screw in. The wrench, the barrel vice, and the headspace gauges are readily available. You can not only rebarrel the rifle, you can change calibers (within reason). You can also easily change out the bolt heads for cartridges with different head dimensions. I have changed out a half dozen or so AR15 barrels over the years so I have first hand experience in how nice it is to have the ability to rebarrel your own rifle.

There is all kinds of after market support for Savage rifles. You can get stocks, chassis, bolt handles, magazines (if your rifle uses a detachable magazine), optics rails, triggers....... Lots of aftermarket support. If there is something about the rifle that you don't like or think needs improvement; there is someone making the part to do it. This is often touted as a big advantage to going with a Remington 700 based rifle. And I am sure there is more stuff, and more variations of stuff available for the Remington 700 action, but how much do you need ? Most people who shoot a lot, "trick out" their rifles to some degree; they personalize them. And with the Savage, doing that is easy.

Basically, after owning bolt rifles made by Remington, Winchester, Tikka, Ruger, Armalite, ............... I honestly don't see the point in buying anything other than Savage. My experience is that they don't shoot any better and they cost more and in some cases, significantly more to get the same or less performance. Are Savage rifles the absolute best rifles being made today ? No. But for less than a thousand US dollars, I think they are at least as good as any factory rifle. And they are usually cheaper.
 
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I am a Ruger fan. I own far more Ruger rifles than any other brand. I love the way they look and feel. The second most common rifle in my safe is Savage. I have been disappointed with several Rugers over the years but have never been disappointed with a Savage. Savage rifles have always exceeded my expectations. Rugers almost never do. Buy a Savage with a $100 rebate and be prepared to be thrilled with it.
 
Ruger American rifles use the barrel nut system as well, it's just as easy to swap a barrel on them as it is a Savage. The only drawback is you'll probably have to fabricate a barrel nut wrench or pay someone to do it. However, there are replacement barrel nuts out there you can purchase to make the next barrel swap easier.

While the RPR uses it, I don't believe the RA does.

Every barrel maker in the world does Savage pre fit, head space is a cinch and the tools to do the job are $125 to $150.

All sorts of aftermarket parts of the bolt as well.
 
I'm thinking about acquiring a bolt action .223, mainly for range plinking. I don't need a high end gun/optic capable of taking off a gnats wing at 1000 yards, but still want something of decent quality. Budget around $5-600.

The two candidates I am most interested in are the Ruger American and the Savage Model 11.

The Ruger American Ranch is chambered for .223/5.56 which might be an advantage. They run about $400 without a scope.

Savage has the Hog Hunter for about the same price, but with iron sights. They also have the Trophy Hunter package with a Nikon scope for around $480.

Any takes on how they compare? What are the pluses and minuses of each?

I have first hand experience with the Ruger American, none on that Savage. I guess that means I prefer the Ruger design and implementation over savage.
The single piece scope base on the ranch rifle is much better (mounting any scope) than the two piece american. The shorter barrel is handy to carry. I am satisfied with the Ruger. Practical for hunting & range plinking. Let me propose three other options.

I have been handling a TC venture at a local shop. It appears to be a very similar design and feature comparable rifle to the Ruger. The fit, finish and smooth operation- all look a bit better. Better stock. And comes with a 1 MOA guarantee. If I was in the market for what you want, I would definitely include this for consideration. Right at the moment, I would try this one.

Tikka was mentioned and it has a good accuracy reputation. You say accuracy not a big deal. For me, why own a rifle to shoot at the range and not be as accurate as the budget will stand? Tikka has the reputation for that.

One person mentioned Howa, I think that also is worth consideration. The action is sized for the 223. Very cute little package that by all credible accounts can deliver.

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2015/12/1/hardware-howa-mini-action/

There are so many good options here. Probably these last three all preferable over the first two proposed. IMHO.

I am not impressed with the free scopes. I have not seen one yet, I would care to keep. Having said that, Nikon makes some good scopes. I dont know what comes with the hog gun.

Final point, I did a barrel swap on a savage striker pistol. It went very well. But this is not for the beginner or anyone on a tight budget. Way beyond where the OP is coming from.
 
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I own several Rugers. I went to the store intent on buying a Ruger bolt rifle. While waiting to be helped, I noticed the Savage Axis on the rack. I asked to see both it and the Ruger. I liked the feel of the Savage better and bought it. I've been very satisfied with it.
 
For a heavy barrel I would go with the Savage. For a sporter weight I would go with neither, and get a CZ. I love my CZ 527 American in .221 Rem Fireball. The single set trigger is awesome. The weight is light, and if I were having to walk while carrying it, I would not be bogged down by the weight of it. Otherwise the Savage Axis 2 would be my next choice.

I am not bashing Ruger as I own several of their revolvers, and an AR556. I have seen a wonderful M77 Mannlicher in .270 that I would love to own if I could pay the asking price of it.
 
I am not impressed with the free scopes. I have not seen one yet, I would care to keep. Having said that, Nikon makes some good scopes. I dont know what comes with the hog gun.

While not my choice of scope, I got a Nikon 3-9 when I bought a Savage to put a different barrel on it.

I use it as a cross check if I am wondering about another scope.


Not a bad hunting scope and its good enough at 100 to tell me if other scopes are off or now.
 
You say accuracy not a big deal. For me, why own a rifle to shoot at the range and not be as accurate as the budget will stand?

I didn't mean to imply that I don't care if a rifle is incapable of grouping well. It is just that with my skill level and intended use, I don't need to spend the cash on an Olympic class gun.

I appreciate all the input from everyone, good food for thought.
 
RC20 said:
taylorce1 said:
Ruger American rifles use the barrel nut system as well, it's just as easy to swap a barrel on them as it is a Savage. The only drawback is you'll probably have to fabricate a barrel nut wrench or pay someone to do it. However, there are replacement barrel nuts out there you can purchase to make the next barrel swap easier.

While the RPR uses it, I don't believe the RA does.

You can believe all you want, doesn't make you right in this case. Pay special attention to #19.

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It isn't hard to build the wrench if you have tools or access to the tools to do so.

Buliding a barrel nut wrench for Ruger American
 
I bought the RAR in .223 with a Sig Wiskey3 scope for $710 total. In hindsight (20/20), I would have spent the extra $50 for the RAP and put a brake on it.

Nothing but a range toy, but hearing that "tink" from a steel plate at 400 yards is just plain fun. I can hit the gong at 650, but it has to be dead still in order to hear that little 55 gn hit. And dead still is something that southeast Wyoming is not all that known for.
 
It isn't hard to build the wrench if you have tools or access to the tools to do so.

I stand corrected.

Did anyone watch that and see what he was doing with a micrometers?

Talk about a Savage (grin)
 
RC20 said:
Did anyone watch that and see what he was doing with a micrometers?

I would have used layout die and a scribe, but they are his tools. Still it's a pretty easy process that you can use to build a wrench with minimal tools. If you go slow you could probably even do it without a drill press.
 
So, vs readily available Savage tools at low cost and parts plentiful ?

Yea I could build it and I would do it better and I don't have that drill press, how many can though?

How many hole saws did he ruined to make that hole? Notice the smoke and lack of showing the cut through?

I suppose you could modify my car to race the Indy 500 but why would you spend 5 million on it when you can buy a Indy care for 1 million?

In surveying (one of many careers) we would call that a forced closure.
 
I have been very happy with the Ruger American in .223. I have that, and a Mossberg MVP.

I put the RA in a Boyd's stock and added a cheek riser and it is darn accurate. Mine is the all-weather standard length that I use as a trainer for precision. 77 TMKs are insane out of it. I am getting 30-40% better accuracy than my friends 223s from other makers...at a 50% or more discount. :)
 
So, vs readily available Savage tools at low cost and parts plentiful ?

You don't have to fabricate any tool at all to get the nut off, but that tool helps you to reuse the original nut. This will really make some peoples heads spin, but if you really just need to get the nut off you can use a pipe wrench. Then for $50 you can get a new barrel nut and wrench to install it from Patriot Valley Arms, about the same price as a new Savage barrel nut and wrench from Northland Shooters. Pacific Tool and Gauge also makes a barrel nut for $17.50 plus shipping that either takes a spanner wrench or possibly the Savage barrel wrench, I don't know for sure but it would be easy enough for them to manufacture the new nut to fit existing barrel nut wrenches. So I would say the tools to change the barrel could be a wash.

Ruger's parts and tools availability will only get better as time goes on.

Yea I could build it and I would do it better and I don't have that drill press, how many can though?

How many hole saws did he ruined to make that hole? Notice the smoke and lack of showing the cut through?

Pretty much anyone who seriously wants to DIY a barrel swap on a Ruger. It really doesn't matter if he ruined a bunch of hole saws, what matters is the process. The process used to build the wrench was sound, and easily followed for anyone wanting to build a barrel nut wrench. If you have better tools at your disposal why not use them?

I suppose you could modify my car to race the Indy 500 but why would you spend 5 million on it when you can buy a Indy care for 1 million?

Many people feel the same way about people who modify/build Savage rifles. Those people haven't stopped me from building on Savage actions.
 
Savage has my vote
In this case I think so to.

Some not so much or a wash.

My neighbor as a Remington 30-06. Purely hunting. For him that does what he wants, I would not suggest anything else to or for him.

Savage is not always the right fit, but its hard to beat the price and Cabella, Dick s have store models that are amazing values.

Remington trigger these days is awful. Ok to hunt, if you want to target shoot then its a replaceable item.

Ruger? Havn't shot a new one so no idea.
 
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