223 Projectiles

N

ninosdemente

New member
I have been using Nosler CC 69gr for Savage 12FV 223 1:9. Have Sierra TMK 69gr (3 boxes due to sale, otherwise would not have bought them) but haven't tried them yet. I only bench shoot and always aiming for accuracy.

What projectiles have you had success with? I have been mainly using 69gr projectiles. I did once used VMAX 50gr. Had bad experience and didn't like them. That was when I was first starting reloading. Now that I have a bit more experience and am more confident, would like to try those again but not sure what weight to use.

Open to suggestions brands/weight. Is there a guide to reference to determine what weights are best optimal choice vs least optimal choice for twist rate? Is it mostly based on testing methods? Thanks.
 
My wife's rifle is the predcesser to yours.
I'm using 69gr Sierra MK, TMK.
I also have some 68gr Hornady Match to try out.

The 69gr MatckKing did well enough for me to take 2nd place factory rifle, at a 100 yard UBR style match.

I've heard some say you can use the 77gr Berger with a 1:9 twist barrel such as ours, but haven't tried them yet.
 
I've found decent loads with all the 223 bullets I've tried but some probably wouldn't pass for a bench load. The ones I would recommend for bench shooting would be 60gr Vmax (I've had good results with the 50grs too), 69gr Hornady match BTHP and the 75gr Hornady match BTHP. I know the 69gr Match BTHPs shot really well out of my 1-9" 20" HBAR.
 
My 1-9 Mini14 and Savage 10PC both perform better 55gr and a moderate dose of Varget versus 62 and 75 pills I’ve tried. The only 1-7 twist Aero AR I own likes the heavier pills. (62 and 69)
 
I use Nosler 55g Varmageddon's in my FV12 223, very accurate on the pdogs. Both the tipped and FBHP's shoot into the same hole with no scope adjustments based on a limited test I did a while back. I was curious about switching out bullets if the need ever arose, and was surprised at the results which are "good enuf" for my needs.
 
I get excellent results with Hornady A Max 53 grain in a 1-12. In a 1-9 you may find the 60 grain better.
 
std7mag, I do have a box of Sierra MK 69gr that was put away and forgot about it. Will check for those online. Thanks.

------

brasscollector, where do you get your 69gr Hornad BTHP Match? Thanks for the suggestion on the Vmax 60gr.

------

TJB101, I have been stuck on using 69gr that I have neglected on trying different weights. Mostly due to the fact that in the beginning I was hesitant about trying different brands/weights that kept me from venturing out of the 69 gr projectiles and the money as well. But now I am a bit more able to explore some more than before, even though the money is still a small factor.

------

jpx2rk, as I have been doing bench rest shooting, I never given a thought on trying "hunting" projectiles. But it never hurts to try them plus they seem to be easy on the wallet compared to the CC I usually buy. Maybe it is time to venture out of those and try other projectiles.

------

Mike38, I tried searching the A Max you suggested but get no results. Where do you get yours? Thanks.



Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I have already been searching on line for those and trying to compare prices. Seems I may have found where to get them as many places are sold out.

When you guys test new projectiles, do you usually buy them one box at a time or do you buy more quantity to get enough testing data from them to determine if they work for you or not? What results determines if they are good for you or not? If you don't mind sharing. For me it is group size of 5 groups of 5 shots.
 
Thanks for the links Marco. That calculator I saw similar to what Hornady website has as well. Is accurateshooter.com a more reliable source compared to all the other sites out there? Besides bullet/powder manufacturers of course.
 
As far as I can determine, all the stability calculators use the same simplified formula that was developed for artillery shells in the early 1900s.
At that time artillery shells looked a lot like footballs.
The simplified equation they all use doesn't consider shape.
Modern match bullets, particularly those based on secant tips, seem to stabilize better than the calculators predict.

Most 69 grain match bullets show that they will be stable in a 1:9 twist and have stability coefficients better than 1.50. Your 69 SMKs shoot great in my 12 FV. You should have no trouble, if you figure out where your barrel likes the jump and do your part in getting a consistent set up and trigger control.

The 77 grain match bullets are generally reported to be marginally stable.
77 SMKs show a 1.36 coefficient and 77 TMKs show a 1.12 coefficient.
The length of each changes the prediction.
That said, both Sierra 77 grain bullets shoot just a well as the 69s in my 12 FV and in 5 other 1:9 twist rifles tested.
 
65 game kinds

What about the 65grain sierra BTSP. I've gotten better accuracy with it than 68BTHP by Hornady from my Ruger Hawkeye.
 
Good catch Rimfire5. A lot of what we do with success in the real world does not match the old theories. :)

To the OP. The 69CC from Nosler is a very good bullet and one I still use a lot in my match rifles for shooting past about 300 or so. The Nosler Ballistic tips, in 50, 55 and 60 grain are also good. You will find a faster powder will work a little better with those than a slower powder better for the 69s. Sierra 69s, both tipped and non-tipped are also very good bullets. Even with my 1:8 and 1:7 twist barrels, I generally see the best groups with 69s as opposed to bullets under 60 or over 70 grains. The Sierra 52 grain match HPs are the one major exception with amazing accuracy. The Hornady 68 grain has not ever given my good accuracy and the 75 might be pushing the twist envelope with your 1:9.
 
I shoot 75 gr.. Hor. OTM in my 1:9 Savages. The calculator works just fine, as does that bullet. The 70 grn. Speer SPT also shoots fine.
The calculator works just as well as gravity and the world not being flat, and look how old that stuff is.
The 224 Sierra 65 gr. is their biggest seller (was 3 years ago). I have Seirra's manual #5. Sierra, BTW, does not list data for the 65 in the 223 Bolt article, but in the same manual (#5) in the separate 223 AR article lumps data for the 63 grain SPT and 65 gr.

Nino: those links are both excellent sources. Hornady sells branded bullets. Those sites are not manufacturer influenced. 65, 68, 69, 70 are well within I:9 ability to stabilize.
 
Last edited:
Hornady 50 and 55 gr SP, and 55 gr V-Max make up my .223 loads.

Usually in stock at multiple stores, and usually the cheapest as well.

All shoot well in both my AR’s, and my bolt action.
 
Of the 7 diffrent 223/5.56 rifles both bolt and sem they all shoot the hornady 75gr bthp quite well. That bullet also works well on deer and coyote.
 
I competed with the Hornady 68 gr Match BTHP, shot great. Sierra MK were OK, but not as consistent as the Hornady. I no longer shoot XTC, most of my shooting is recreational, but I picked up a lot of Hornady 50 gr VMax for my 22-250 and 223 bolt guns for coyotes and ground swuirrels, so we'll see.
 
Rimfire5 said:
As far as I can determine, all the stability calculators use the same simplified formula that was developed for artillery shells in the early 1900s.
Click to expand...

Not really. The current crop use Don Miller's updated version of the Greenhill formula that varies the constant with velocity and takes atmospheric conditions into account and generally updates it. However, if you want something different, you can also use a calculator based on the late Robert L. McCoy's McGyro program which, in turn, is based on 6 DOF calculations that use moments of inertia locations. That is alien to the Greenhill approach. It requires entering bullet dimensional information about the bullet shape to make that estimate (the Hornady 4 DOF trajectory software makes the same estimate).

Geoffrey Kolbe has the McGyro-based calculator here, but it requires you to work backward. It calculates the ideal twist, so you try bullets in it until you find one that matches the barrel twist rate you have at the muzzle velocity you have fairly closely when the gyroscopic stability factor is 1.5.

Just as a side note, Don Miller was one of Robert L. McCoy's students at the U.S. Army Ballistics Research Lab. It seems exterior ballistics is a small world.


Ninosdemente,

Some 9" twist barrels seem to shoot the 77-grain match bullets OK and others don't. Some that do will only do it in summer weather when the air density is lower. This is due to tolerances in the twist rate, which can be off several percent one way or the other in a specific gun, leaving you to measure it or, more simply, to try the bullets out.

For short-range (100 yards) the Sierra 53-grain flat base MatchKing is one I've always found to be excellent in both my 8" twist match AR and 12" twist 788.
 
As far as I can tell, Don' Millers simplified equation is used in all the readily available calculators that most people use. At least, they all use the same data entry and they give the same stability predictions for the 77 grain bullets I tried to calculate. The calculators all reported marginal stability with the same factor. That was what I was referring to.

My two 1:9 twist rifles have stabilized Sierra 77 grain SMK and TMK bullets in temperatures from 30 to 90 degrees F so I can't testify to any temperature caused instability. It could be that both barrel twists are actually a bit faster than their advertised 1:9 but that is difficult to measure accurately. I'm not complaining, just reporting that I was surprised that what I traditionally had avoided based on the calculator predictions and the general 'expert guidance' turned out to actually stabilize and shoot accurately.

One of my rifles is a Savage 12 FV with a 26-inch barrel and the other is a CZ 527 Varmint with a 24-inch barrel. Both shoot the 77s as accurately as any other bullet weight. In fact, the 12 FV shoots the 77s more accurately than any other bullet with multiple powders based upon 491 measured 5 round groups.

I also recommend the Sierra 53 grain SMK flat base #1400 as one of the most accurate light bullets at 100 yards in both of those rifles and also is very accurate in my semi-auto Les Baer 1:8 twist Super Varmint. I have found that the 53s shoot best with the faster powders like H335, N133 and also with CFE223.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top