.223 overall length

P

Pchris

Inactive
good morning all;
I have concerns about reloading .223 Remington. my current set of dies are rather cheap and when i press in the bullet i get very inconsistent overall length of the cartridge. my overall length ranges from 2.055 to 2.061. my concern is head space affecting accuracy and safety. my assumption is that .005 will not be a safety concern but i have never had a real issue seating bullets until I used these cheap dies. these dies have met the scrap steel bin but I would like to shoot the rounds I am concerned about.

thanks
 
0.005" IS INSIGNIFICANT in terms of overall cartridge length for 99.9% of users.
In fact, I seriously doubt that bullet makers hold their manufacturing tolerances to that level on any but the high end bullets.
"my current set of dies are rather cheap"
It's much easier to make a precise cheap die than to pound out a bajillion bullets with precisely the same nose profile.
Years ago, I made the mistake of buying about 50# of CHEAP .223 FMJ bullets. CAOL length varied by gross amounts due to the poor quality control of the nose profile. Interestingly(in a perverse sort of way), accuracy wasn't nearly as poor as one would expect.
 
Pchris - are you certain it's the die causing the irregularity? As Mobuck mentioned, my first inclinations was the bullet itself. i know soft points will vary simply due to the softness of the tip. Also check the seating plug of the die itself. Does the plug profile match the profile of the bullet you are using? Generally, with rifle bullets, the plug should be making contact with the ogive [curve] of the bullet, not the tip.

My reloading "precision" has changed over the course of my reloading career. Now, if it chambers, fits in the magazine...I'm good. I haven't used a set of calipers for a while.
 
I see where some powder makers give a min and max dimension concerning over presure in the cartridge. Being kinda picky i always try for nominal spec verses "min max".
Thanks for the help
 
Buy a Wilson case gauge and check your cases against it. It’s the fastest and easiest way to deal with this and well worth the money.
 
.223

What weapon are you reloading for?

Do you have any issues chambering your reloads or do they simply drop in effortlessly?

Are all your shells the exact same size prior to powder and bullet?

Have you tried quality bullets rather than the ones you currently use?

I imagine most of us reloaders have gone the cheap road and ended up replacing those items.

A cartridge gauge is a nice device to have on your bench as well.
 
i am using Nosler ballistic tip fmj bullets. i guess i should look at the die...never thought to look at the profile of the die itself. these are the first rounds i have loaded for my AR so Im just trying to cover my bases. i use higher end dies on my other rifle rounds and have pretty good consistency. I will try a few rounds and see how it shoots.
thanks again for the help.. much appriciated
 
Pchris wrote:
...my current set of dies are rather cheap...
Click to expand...

I have yet to see a set of reloading dies from any of the reputable manufacturers incapable of making ammunition more accurate than could be exploited by all but the "five shot, one hole" crowd.

...when i press in the bullet i get very inconsistent overall length of the cartridge. my overall length ranges from 2.055 to 2.061.
Click to expand...

Did you check the dimensions of your bullets before seating them to ensure they are not the cause of the problem rather than the dies?

Are the case lengths varying by random amounts or are they getting gradually shorter or longer? If the change is gradual, look at the seater stem and whether it is moving or if something like shavings or debris have built up in the seater stem.

...my concern is head space affecting accuracy and safety.
Click to expand...

In the 223/5.56 round, the cartridge headspaces on its shoulder so how far the bullets are sticking out of the case has no impact on headspace. Are you sure you are using the term "headspace" correctly in this context; or are you referring instead to the distance of the bullet from the lands of the rifling at the end of the chamber?

...have never had a real issue seating bullets until I used these cheap dies. these dies have met the scrap steel bin but I would like to shoot the rounds I am concerned about.
Click to expand...

You might want to go see if you can retrieve them from the bin until you isolate the cause of the inconsistency. No point throwing out a set of perfectly good dies if they're not the source of the problem.
 
Pchris wrote:
I see where some powder makers give a min and max dimension concerning over presure in the cartridge. Being kinda picky i always try for nominal spec verses "min max".
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by this.

Minimum and Maximum dimensions concerning "over pressure"? Are you referring to Minimum and Maximum charge weights (amount of powder) and the chamber pressure readings they produced under test conditions?

If so, you should understand that proper load development is to being with the Starting (Minimum) load - it's called a Starting load for a reason - and then working up in fractions of a grain until 1) a desired level of accuracy is obtained, 2) the Maximum load is reached, or 3) you see pressure signs in the fired brass.

If you do not already have one, please get a printed Reloading Manual. Then, spend some time studying (not just reading) the section at the front about "How to Reload". It will explain Starting Loads, Maximum Loads, how to look for pressure signs, headspace and chamber pressure.
 
What dies are you using. I load the 223, have loaded a lot of 223 rounds, with SP and FMJ. I don't measure COL. Never have on any rounds I have reloaded. And I have never had any issues with that. If you are not trimming cases that might give you that discrepancy in cartridge length. Not sure, but I wouldn't think your dies could be that bad to cause that problem.
 
Pchris said:
I see where some powder makers give a min and max dimension concerning over presure in the cartridge. Being kinda picky i always try for nominal spec verses "min max".
Click to expand...

They give a starting load and a not-to-exceed (maximum) load as determined for their test gun. It may not be a correct range in your gun, so always begin at the bottom end of the load range and work up in steps no greater than 2% of the maximum charge while watching for pressure signs. Don't begin in the middle. You will get away with it 99% of the time, and then one day you will try it and get pierced primers, gas cut pits in the bolt face, and maybe loose primer pockets and ruined brass or even a jammed gun. It's a statistical crapshoot.

Regarding the bullets, the seating die usually pushes on the bullet ogive (the curved sides of the nose portion), and not the tip. Since bullets in one box usually are mixed after coming off several machines each with their own set of tooling, it is pretty common for a seating die to not to contact the ogive at the exact same distance from the bullet tip. In many instances the bullets themselves don't match in length exactly.

If you want, you can prove this to yourself pretty easily. First, use your caliper to sort the bullets by length. The ballistic tips are usually better than hollow points on this, but sort anyway, just in case. Next, take out the part of the seating die that presses the bullet into the case (the seating ram or stem) out of the die. Set it on your bullets and measure them from the bullet base to the top of that seating ram part with your caliper. Do this with every bullet, sorting them by the length number that results. Then put the die back together and load only bullets that had the same length in the first sort and the same reading in your second sort. At that point you shouldn't get more than about 0.002" variation caused by differences in the cases and other smaller noise factors.
 
Hodgdon reloading data center indicates 2.20" COAL FOR 55 gr bullets. Most 223 rifles will chamber 2.25-2.26". Some a little longer.
OP's COAL indicates something fundemental is amiss. I do not think op should be reloading at all, without a firm grasp of the dimensions of the final product. Google SAAMI + 223, then study the dimensions. Then try to restate your question based on correct vaules. A good reloading manual, carefully read, repeatedly, and then loading at STARTING loads only, max minus 10% may save fingers and eyesight.
 
This is Hodgdons data for 40 Nos BT.
One of my favorites. But the BT is not FMJ, as OP states it is.
The COAL is specified as 2.28".
"BULLET WEIGHT40 GR. NOS BT
ManufacturerHodgdon
PowderVarget
Bullet Diameter.224"
C.O.L.2.280""
So, OP 's COAL is materially wrong, as is bullet construction: FMJ does not equal Ballistic Tip.
I am starting to think this thread is a troll.
 
Funny nobody has mentioned this. The bullet seater of all 223 dies push on the tapered part of the bullet. The tip and length of the bullet are the uncontrolled part of the shape. Any excess jacket makes the tip longer. So there is some variation between where the seater pushes and the tip that shows up and n oal variation.

The other part is neck tension. The case necks vary in the force they push back on the bullet. After seating, this results in oal variation....

In standard ammo I make, I find this variation to be +/- 0.005". I use good dies. Who makes bad dies?
 
Pchris,
I really think it's time you sat down and read the reloading manual from cover to cover!

Cartridge Over All Length is NOT head space.
Manuals are listed as starting load of powder charge to max load of powder charge.
Nosler doesn't make a Ballistic Tip FMJ !!

I regularly use "cheap" Lee dies and can regularly shoot any of my firearms 1 MOA or less.
 
Good info std7mag. Yes, headspace is the word meaning the bolt face to shoulder datum in the chamber. On the cartridge, base to shoulder datum is the matching dimension. Are you measuring this?
 
How do they shoot? My match ammo varies in OAL by that much but it's all in the tip, they certainly shoot well enough. OAL is a very rough measurement anyway; your die pushes on the shoulder of the bullet not the tip.
 
OP-

Be aware that the Saami specs are important, IMHO, for rifles with magazines. If the OAL of the completed round is over spec, there will be a non feed of the next round (gas gun) or a non feed on a bolt gun since the new round cannot leave the magazine cleanly.

If you have a single shot bolt gun, no such problem. I have such a rifle in .223 and my important measurement is base to ogive, not OAL, which I exceed on a regular basis.

And PLEASE do read and understand the manual. You can skip the load date recommendations for calibers and bullets you are not using as well as the folksy stuff about Larry's or Jim's prairie dog hunts and favorite loads. Pay strict attention to the How To information. Please post here with any questions re: same.

Lyman's 50th or even 49th is a good manual. Load data for new bullets or powders may be found on line without searching for more than a few seconds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top