.223 or something else?

Another vote for the 223.Savage all the way for me though. Yes on the 1 in 9 twist also. As Kraigwy stated. You can shoot the lighter bullets in a 1 in 9 twist,you just have to slow them down a bit. 300 yards is a cake walk for a 223.
More than capable of 600 yard shots and will drop a yote in its tracks.
 
The only downside to a faster twist like 1:9, 1:8, or 1:7 is that they can spin the bullet so fast that thin jacketed varmint bullets can fly apart
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Has this ever been confirmed to happen with any of the modern day varmint rounds? Or is this just another perpetual internet myth? I personally have shot everything from 45 gr Remington HPs to 75 grain Hornady BTHPs and have never had an issue with bullets flying apart. In fact with everything I have shot I have never noticed a difference in accuracy. This is all out of the same 1:9" Bushmaster HBAR.
 
The only downside to a faster twist like 1:9, 1:8, or 1:7 is that they can spin the bullet so fast that thin jacketed varmint bullets can fly apart
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I don't buy that, I shoot 52 grn V-max in my 1-7 White Oak Service Rifle, Never had one come apart. Never seen one come apart. Never heard of it except on the internet.
 
Hunt around for a good used Savage 110.
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.223 is a short action caliber, and Savage labels their short actions with a 2 digit code. Savage 10 will be what a .223 is offered in. 110 is for a long action caliber.

But I agree. I have a Stevens 200 and while its a great rifle, I would likely look for a used 10 with accu-trigger. Either will serve you well though.

Savage offers a 1-9 twist, which is probably want you want. Mine doesn't shoot 55 grains bullets as well as the heavier 62-69 grain bullets.
 
I think it's important for you to think real hard about which chamber you get your 223 in. If you want to be able to use surplus military 5.56 ammo or brass then get it chambered in 5.56 and you will be able to shoot either brass through it.
 
Unless I am mistaken, the Stephens is basically a pre-accutrigger Savage. For the difference in price, you could easily upgrade the trigger. I have a Timney in my pre-accutrigger 110 and love it.
 
The Stevens 200 is as similar to a Savage Axis as a Camaro is to the Firebird.
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No it's not. It's not at all similar. The Stevens 200 is the same exact rifle as the older Savage 110 without the accu trigger. It's a much better option than the Savage Edge/Axis.

Another option is Walmart sells the Savage Model 10 and 110's for $387-397 with a cheap scope. This is the model with the accu trigger. If they have one in the caliber you want, this is the best choice out there imo.
 
The Stevens 200 is the same exact rifle as the older Savage 110 without the accu trigger.
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I think you sold one for them, then. I tried the accu-clanker on my nephew's super-duper 1000 yard .308 (forget the model but was a single shot, had a laminated stock and about a yard of heavy SS barrel) and detested it.

Old dogs...
 
Quote:
The only downside to a faster twist like 1:9, 1:8, or 1:7 is that they can spin the bullet so fast that thin jacketed varmint bullets can fly apart

I don't buy that, I shoot 52 grn V-max in my 1-7 White Oak Service Rifle, Never had one come apart. Never seen one come apart. Never heard of it except on the internet.
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You should try reading the Hornady Manual, 7th edition. Page 193 (and I believe on other cartridge pages):

At velocities exceeding 3400 fps, bullets sometimes come apart before they reach the target. Also note the thin jacket of SX bullets limits them to velocities of 3400fps.

Then under the Bullet Description section regarding the SX style varmint bullet, page 40:

...These bullets have such thin copper jackets that they cannot be driven much above 3500fps velocities without flying apart.

As I mention in my previous post, some bullets can fly apart with a fast twist rate and high velocities. Not all or even most, but some of the thin jacket ones can, at least according to one bullet manufacturer.


ETA: The part of my post conveniently left out of the other posters' quote of me, which is relevant to the statement:
With lighter bullets you are combining faster velocities (and spinning) with very thin jacket "explosive" bullets.
 
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I've got the Savage Axis in .223, the combo that came with a Bushnell 3-9x40 scope, and shot it for the first time today with cheap Russian ammo, shot right at 1 moa. And that's with me pulling one. Only ran 40 rds through it today, but the trigger definitely got better around 30 rds in, and I expect it to get even better as I shot more through it, lol.

The Axis fits right in the budget, comes with a decent scope, and will definitely get you started. The Stevens 200 would also be a great option. But for an entry level, budget bolt, the Axis is a good one.
 
Just in case the Hornady reference does not convince the doubters, I knew I had read this in more than one place. Google found a reference to the Speer manual, so I found this in my Speer Reloading Manual #13, page 137, the intro to the .223 cartridge data:

"Most .22 caliber centerfire rifle bullets are of light construction for varmint hunting. When fired at 3,200 fps in a 1-in-7 twist rifle, the bullet is rotating at over 300,000 rpm when it leaves the muzzle. This rotation is more than most varmint bullets can withstand so they are literally ripped apart as they leave the barrel.

If you have a rifle with the faster 1-in-7 twist, you should limit the muzzle velocity of sporting type bullets to 2,800 fps."

It goes on to recommend other bullet styles and weights they offer iin .224" that are suitable for faster velocities (heavier jackets). Of course this has to be taken into context of the types of bullets they make, and does not apply to all varmint bullets by all manufacturers.

I have zero experience with thin jacket varmint bullets and am only passing on advice I received from two bullet manufacturers. I suppose they may be faking the data and just read it on the interWebz themselves, but I suspect they have more insight into how their bullets perform than that.
 
Dinosaur vote here. Get a bolt action .243, Savage, Remington, Winchester, it really doesn't matter much as long as it feels right in your hands. Still lighter than the Mosin, and better for larger game than the .223 unless you aren't going after anything bigger than paper targets and gophers. Then you can move up in the same gun model to a .308 when you want to go after more serious game, anything from deer to moose and it would be a gun you are already familiar with and comfortable using.
 
I don't buy that, I shoot 52 grn V-max in my 1-7 White Oak Service Rifle, Never had one come apart. Never seen one come apart. Never heard of it except on the internet.
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The only case I've heard about of this ("bullets going poof") happening was with a 220 Swift and "Laser Beam" level handloads .....

What velocity are you launching these at? I'll bet it ain't Swift velocities.

I suppose it could be done with other cartridges, but you'd really have to be pushing a .223 hard to get to 3400+ f/sec...... Gun beating, case wrecking hard.
 
You can't shoot a varmint bullet fast enough in 223 to make it come apart.

I'd get a new Savage as suggested. Rem. has some nice new rifles at reasonable prices.

A good used bolt gun can be had, but I would look at the barrel carefully for rounded worn riflings. Especially if it's a heavy barreled varmint or target gun.
 
You can't shoot a varmint bullet fast enough in 223 to make it come apart.
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Obviously Speer Bullets disagrees since they printed their cautionary note in the .223 cartridge section. Reloading manuals such as Lee and Hodgdon have several SAAMI limt loads in .223 40 gr bullet exceeding 3,500 fps which is beyond the recommended velocities of some Hornady and Speer bullets, perhaps others as well. The 36 gr bullet loads can reach 3,800 fps with standard SAAMI pressure limits.
 
I use 75 grain Hornady A-Max in my Savage Mod 11 223, It is like shooting a laser to the target. (.130 MOA 100 yrds) Be sure to get one with the Accutrigger.

Jim

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Eagle, it's not a matter of muzzle velocity alone. It is bullet rpm which is a function of muzzle velocity & twist rate.

Jimbob, all my handloads for my 223 w/ 1:12 twist push 40 grain hornady vmax well above 3400 fps while not exceeding any manufacturers recommendations. Those same 40's do a great job on coyotes. Pin-hole entrance, no exit wound, and dead coyotes if I do my part.
 
I haven't had rifle bullets come apart on me but I had some creative handloads for a handgun that did. I loaded some 230 grain hollow points intended for 45 ACP into 45 Colt brass with a very healthy powder charge behind them. My intention was to use them in my 454 to shoot varmints with and they worked great at close range. The varmints did flips and went poof but I couldn't hit anything at longer distances and after a few shots I figured out why. You could see where the bullet fragments had spread out hitting the ground in a pattern.
 
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