.223 novice, need a little guidance

S

spacecoast

New member
I'm an experienced pistol reloader, but am venturing into the brave new world (for me) of rifle round reloading with .223 Remington. I have the Lee Ultimate die set with the full length sizing die, collet neck sizing die, bullet seating die and factory crimp die. I have Winchester small rifle primers, a pound of Varget and 62 grain Armscor FMJ bullets (with a crimp groove). I'm reloading for a rifle with an Adams Arms piston driven upper with a 16" barrel and 1 in 7" twist. I have about 250 pieces of mixed range brass and I use a Lee Hand Press.

I don't yet have a case trimmer, so I searched my pile of clean brass for 20 pieces with an overall length of 1.752" or shorter (max. length 1.76" according to the directions in the Lee kit). This required rejecting about 40 cases to find 20 that were short enough. Before I get started, I wanted to check with you guys and see if my plan is sound.

1. Lubricate the brass with Lee resizing lube (question - do I lube the entire length, or is it good enough to just put some lube near the top and around the inside of the neck?

2. Use the full length sizing die to punch out the primer.

3. Prime the brass with my Lee Ram Prime.

4. Charge the case with a starting load of Varget (22.1 grains according to Hodgdon web site) - anyone have a better starting point than this?

5. Seat the bullet to the crimp groove to an overall length of approx. 2.20" (the OAL of the commercial American Eagle 62 grain rounds I am emulating). OAL cannot exceed 2.26".

6. Use the Factory Crimp Die to get a reasonable but not overdone grip on the bullet with the brass. I think I have a fairly good feel for this from crimping many thousands of handgun rounds.

OK, please shoot holes in the procedure above. What am I missing? Any idea what kind of results I might expect at 100 yards?

Thanks in advance...
 
1). The whole body of the case with little to none on the neck

2) yes

3) sure

4) it's as good as any but I'd start at 22 then 22.5 , 23 , 23.5 etc

5) seat bullet at what ever length you want as long as seated deep enough to have good bullet hold . For auto loaders I like to have the bullet making full contact with the neck depth

6) no need to crimp but if you feel it's important ignore 5 and seat to crimp groove

Accuracy ? 1.5 moa / 1.5" at 100yds would be good . Anything better is better
 
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I use a Lee Hand Press.
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For 250, 223 loads. Indeed you are a brave soul. Get yourself an inexpensive single stage press.

Lube the full case, it will help keep it from getting stuck in the resizing die.

Be sure to get the shoulder correctly set to the right distance. (bottle neck cases, rifle) need the shoulder at the right place since the case indexes at the shoulder. Pistol cases index at the mouth. You can use your rifle's chamber to do this. As to measuring case length, you need to do this after you resize the case, not before. Rifle cases stretch when re-sized.

Start your test loads at half way between min and max load data for your bullet/powder combination.

Use the factory crimp die, but do a light crimp unless you are doing a max/compressed load, then use a heavy crimp.

Be sure the cases are lubed well, it is really a pain to un-stick a case out of these dies.

Again, get a press you can mount, you will use it many, many times. You can mount a simple single stage press on a piece of board and use it at the range as well. It will make your life much better. (especially for rifle cases)

Stay safe.
Jim
 
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Experience talking here. Grab a case length go/no go guage. I was having 1 in ~20 rounds stick in the chamber of my first batch, took me a few to realise my full length sizing was off. A sizing guage will help curtail this issue.
 
I too, punish myself with a Hand Press. Thousands and thousands.:eek:

Follow the full length die setup instructions, you'll be fine in the AR. Get a cheap Lee case trim set when you can and use your cordless drill to buzz down the longer cases.

It's been proven the Lee FCD makes your reloads more consistent, but it's purely optional. There's plenty of case neck tension to hold the bullet in place.

When dropping stick powders, lower the measure arm slowly so the granules don't bridge and dump powder all over the place. Ask me how I know.:rolleyes:

Don't be 'ashamed' to use a hand press. I like reloading while watching my various shows.
 
Never understand the comments in fear of hand presses. That's all I've EVER used. Been reloading for 16 years now. Probably, including both pistol and rifle, somewhere north of 50,000 rounds. Even use a hand press to reform 30/06 and 270 Win. brass to 7.92 x 57 js (8mm Mauser).

It's NOT that hard. Geez.
 
Thanks for the tips guys, especially about measuring after resizing.

I lubed all the cases with my fingers and used a cotton swab to get a little inside the case neck. All of them ran through the resizer easily, with really very little effort. I believe it was easier than 9mm and certainly easier than .357 or .44 magnum brass. After resizing, I set my calipers at 1.76" and all fit, most with room to spare.

After I primed the first two rounds, I remembered that I probably ought to clean the primer pockets, something I usually skip with pistol brass. I did that on the remaining 18. I got all of the primers successfully seated, a couple were tight but not inordinately so.
 
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After full length sizing,

Take a couple sized cases and see if they chamber AND extract with ease in your rifle.

Do not prime or load any cases until you are certain that they will fit the camber.
 
Realize your seater die has a crimp function built in.I'm not suggesting you use it.I'm letting you know that if you screw the seater in to the shellholder you willhave problems with your shoulder collapsing,increasing in diameter.
Then you will be asking why your rounds won't chamber,get stuck,etc.
 
I think you're doing fine, and will also say don't be afraid of using a hand press. They work just fine, they're not fast but who cares? More people get into trouble trying to speed through the process...and few people really NEED a big auto Dillon. I've been using a Rock Chucker for over 25 years and will probably never change. Some things to make life easier for you is, a trimmer and eventually a single stage press. A trimmer is a must I feel, and can be had cheap enough. I think RCBS makes the best one on the market if you ask me. You may want to think about a Lee deprimer, so you can deprime your cases and then size them...it'll take less effort with the hand press if you're not depriming and resizing at the same time. Aside from that, I would say you're doing fine. I've never bothered crimping ammo for my AR, and I just ignore the cannelure and seat the bullet so it chambers well, and will fit in a magazine. Like others said, a go gauge is 20 bucks and will help you set up your die so that the round chambers, then you just seat your bullet so it clears a magazine, chambers well, etc.
 
Spacecoast:

I can recommend that you get a good primer pocket swagger. I have a Dillon swagger but there are others. Find the one that fits your needs. I swage every piece of brass at least once. It will help with the tight fits you described.

I agree with others get a case gauge for 223.

Get a steel pin based wet tumbler and full length resize and decap then tumble. it will clean the primer pockets for you. Works great on pistol brass as well.

I believe you are loading for an AR platform. If so you will most likely find FL resize to be mandatory. Small base dies should not be necessary but keep them in mind if you experience difficulties.

If you're going to be re-using brass for a long time look into annealing. It will extend the case life. You may find that its cheaper just to replace the brass periodically.

Good luck
 
Take a couple sized cases and see if they chamber AND extract with ease in your rifle.
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Well I missed that step, but after I seated the first bullet I did exactly that. The round fell into and from the chamber with ease.

I forgot to mention that I would be dipping the powder for these rounds. The 1.6cc Lee dipper yields 22.8 grains of Varget, almost halfway between the recommended 22.1 min and 24.1 max, so that's what I used.

I ended up seating them to the top edge of the crimp groove, with an OAL of 2.24". The grip on the bullet seemed sufficient, but I went ahead and gave them a mild crimp with the FCD.

It will be a few weeks before I shoot these but I will post a report at these time.

Realize your seater die has a crimp function built in.I'm not suggesting you use it.
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Actually, the Lee instructions say it does not perform this function. I recall that the pistol dies can be set up for it, but I always use the FCD instead, with the exception of .30 Luger, for which I use RCBS.
 
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Just noticed something - this Lee .223 die set was sold as a blem at Midway ($5 off) and also included a lock stud, extra shell holder and case length gauge. I wasn't sure what they were until I dug into the whole case trimmer thing. So all I need now is the cutter itself and the chamfer tool, and I'm in business. :)
 
A "watch out" in sizing bottle neck cartridges that you don't have for straight wall handgun cases is one or multiple dents in the case shoulder as your remove the lubed case from the full length sizing die.

The dents are almost always the result of using too much case lube. Clean the die with a Q-tip and use less lube to fix the problem should you run into it.
 
I stand corrected on the crimp function.
I would then say the Lee dies are an exception.If you look back in the history of beginning .223 reloaders,at the top of the list for problems is collapsed shoulders from the seating die,as described.
Keep it in mind if you have occasion to use a different seater die
 
One important note before you start is to make sure you work with bullets that match your barrel twist. One of the greatest mistakes I have seen with reloading the 223.
 
Thanks Chief, that's why I selected a 62 grain bullet. It's my understanding that a 1 in 7" twist would yield poor results with a lightweight varmint bullet, but should be OK with 62 grains or heavier.
 
Although technically true that twist rate effects bullet performance . I have found it not to be an issue with all weights from 55gr to 77gr and twist from 1-7 to 1-9 . I load and shoot using all weights from 55 to 77 and use rifles with 1-7 , 1-8 & 1-9 . My 1-7's shoot 55gr bullets quite well and my test with 77gr bullets from a 1-9 showed no stability issues out to 300yards .

Now a very poorly made 55gr bullet shot from a 1-7 can be less accurate but that's kind of a DUH statement . Most poorly made bullets will not shoot very accurately regardless . Also a 77gr smk fired from a 1-9 twist at lower velocities will likely have stability issues .

Now all my test and shooting is done at 1200 feet above sea level or less in temps ranging from 50 to 95 degrees . Changing those conditions could effect stability .
 
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