223 not chambering

223_Shoulder_Bulge.jpg
 
Crimping: The bullet does not have a groove for the crimp and then there is that problem with upsetting the case body/shoulder juncture when the reloader does not understand the crimp only requires a hint of effort. Ands as Lyman and Dillon said the purpose of bullet hold can be upset with the crimp meaning crimping bottle neck cases can be a bad habit.

And I am thankful I do not have any hang-ups when it comes to comparing cases, I have a discipline, I can start with 100 cases, after the cases have been fired, sized and loaded I can used the unfired cases for comparison when something goes wrong.

Goes wrong: After I have fired a case 25;) times I can determine the amount of weight loss, or increase in case diameter; because I am the one that does not have datum 'hang-ups' I can measure the diameter of the case anywhere along the length of the case; that is handy when using a comparator.

I have extra barrels, take off barrels and I also have new barrels; when it comes to gages I have no reservation about cutting a barrel off when making a chamber gage. All I have to know is the amount of case head protrusion from the chamber. For example: I expect case head protrusion on a Mauser to be .110", I expect the head space clearance on the Mauser to be .005. SO? If I make a chamber gage for the Mauser I will make it with .110" clearance.

I know: Chamber gages are available and we have members that talk about owning the finest, it is not a problem for me but those chamber gages are like the Wilson case gage. I can only guess the users of these gages use their thumb nail to determine case length from the shoulder to the case head.

F. Guffey
 
Another way to know for sure if there is a crimp is to take a picture of the pulled bullets . If there’s an excessive crimp there should be an indentation on the bullet from the crimp .
 
I can see it on Mehavey's blow-up, but it just didn't appear to me on the original photos as necessarily more than a heavily applied deburring. Old eyes, I guess. The little start of a wrinkle just below the left red arrow is a telling point.

Mehavey, what are you using to enlarge the photos without losing a lot of resolution?
 
Sorry for the late reply. I did remove the primers and am working with five. Did trimmed to 1.742". When I tried to chamber... All five did.

One thing I noticed, it's marking the brass. The ones that chambered. I check fired brass that was used on the rifle and it did on those as well. I chambered a couple non fired and it did not chamber.

Won't help without the pictures... But I am having difficulties uploading. Will try another way.

I also tried the gauge and it is better vs what it was on the pictures I previously posted.

By the way, the projectile did have a ring mark around it.
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/165ZlMrQqDYOWMFDWuYpBfTquQNy7kiXn/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C3-sx3OY64NzjaMabS5V-_uW5uTdXcVS/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1auK7l92ZoAvyka2S9ItwZnXDQ8M9QSOn/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D-h7jGBSPEBR6Q7b7-caY5040QhZDGPg/view?usp=drivesdk

So this is what I found. I have some nosler cc 69gr... Seated two of these and two of the VMAX. As you can see from the pictures they are near the same length. Any idea why the VMAX didn't chamber while the Nosler cc did?

On the far left the size of that I seated based of the VMAX seated VMAX set up and the Nosler came out to 2.2015".
 
The VMAX I had to give that extra push again while the Nosler was no force at all. I chambered again factory ammo to make sure the Nosler chambered as the factory Remington's.
 
I did the following:
-I sized 5 brass
-Trimmed
-Deburr
-they all chambered with no force (1.742")

Then...
-Set seating die as indicated, backed off die 2 full turns while stem was removed.
-Then inserted stem when bullet was put in and started to lower until I reached suggestion depth from members (2.250")
-Seated two different bullets Vmax 60gr and Nosler CC 69gr out of curiosity
-Three of them final OAL (2.2495)
-Nosler chambered as it should no force... BUT vmax did not. I had to give it that extra push. Did not chamber as it should

Could I come to conclusion that VMAX was the problem all along?
 
I've used Hornady A Max the ogive is much different from the Sierra's , seat it lower until it chambers , then check the base to ogive settings , it will be the same as the other bullets your seating . If the bullet diameters are the same it's the shape of the bullet that's giving you the problem . What gauge are you using to check your ogive settings . Not looking for OAL setting only ogive setting.
 
I'm restricted from seeing your photos

Any idea why the VMAX didn't chamber while the Nosler cc did?
Click to expand...

See post number 6 in this thread . It does not matter what your COAL is as much as when the bullet starts getting fatter from the tip . In post #6 Unclenick shows the longer pointed bullet is seated much longer then the short rounded bullet yet they both contact the rifling at there respective COAL . If you were to try and seat that shorter bullet to the same COAL as the long pointed bullet you will experience the same thing you are now . That is the bullet is engaging the lands before the cartridge is fully chambered . In your case the difference is likely very small by only .020 or .030+ or so .

Did you answer the question about if the rifle/throat is clean and free of fouling ?
 
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Yes, the rifle was clean before I started redoing the brass I pulled the bullets from.

Well... then I will try additional brass and try it again with seating a bit deeper. At least the vmax. Although a dummy round, if it was filled with powder... you can only go so far deep right? This is more of a curiosity question... but I guess will know part of the answer until I seat a vmax deeper.
 
Are you able to measure from the base of the case to the bullets ogive , what gauge are you using ? The caliper is not going to do it .
 
Keep in mind what the Black Hills tech said, which was to try 2.240", which is slightly shorter than you have now. Based on your report about the other bullets seating without resistance, though, and also that the ring on these bullets goes all the way around them and that you have set the seater up without a crimp (I think: you did adjust the seater down without turning the die body, right?), this seems clearly to be an issue of the bullet ogive being shorter than the others and you having a short, tight throat. Seating deeper is all you can do in this instance and be sure to start the load workup over.

To repeat myself from an earlier post, an extreme example of two bullets with the same jump to the lands having very different COL's is below.

attachment.php
 
OP said:
-Nosler chambered as it should no force... BUT vmax did not. I had to give it that extra push. Did not chamber as it should

Could I come to conclusion that VMAX was the problem all along?
Click to expand...
Yes.... See Post 22.

... and No. (Likely you also had crushed shoulder from CrimpWhileSeating syndrome)

In any case... You have apparently now got an operational solution
(No Crimp & No Hornady/VMAX) . . . and I'd press on. ;)


.
 
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Unclenick
As always , great diagrams . I'm getting the feeling the OP can't measure to the ogive . My need help in finding the right gauge to work with . I asked .

Chris
 
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