.223 Hornady Tap vs 5.56 Hornady T2 Tap for HD

[rickyrick]

My experience with hunting hogs at close range with .223 is this: light and fast bullets works best. The will all work, but high velocity rules at close range.

 

[Panfisher]

My AR is stuffed with 55 grain HP, not sure which ones, whatever bullets were on clearance. All reloads, work fine on little critters like coyotes and stray cats, I expect they would work on 2 legged as well if needed.

 

[FITASC]

Longest open area/space in my house roughly 35 yards.

105 feet is a HUGE house....................

Still, a full choked shotgun can easily handle that distance...........

 

[Airborne Falcon]

Which is better for my HD scenario, .223 Hornady Tap or 5.56 Hornady T2 Tap both in 75 gr? I read there is a small difference between the bullets and that the velocity difference between the two may be 175-200 fps different.

It's six of one, half dozen of the other for most people. Velocity is not the biggest concern indoors ... penetration is, or rather over-penetration.

For that you want a frangible.

My facts: 16" barrel, 1:7 twist, used with silencer. Longest open area/space in my house roughly 35 yards. My house has thick interior walls, some solid block, some drywall. Exterior solid block walls. Closest neighbor around 50 yards away.

Silencer or suppressor?

35 yards? Seriously? That's 105 feet ... you have an open area/space in your home 105' long?

I live in my wife's and mine 5,240 square foot home and my largest straight-a-way is 20 yards (60') ... I just shot it with the laser rangefinder with my back pinned against one wall and shooting through the smallest opening out of a room, through another room and down a hallway. It's a shot I would never have to make, not ever.

My point is ... you house is obviously too large.

Secondly, don't worry about longest anything when it comes to home defense. Rather, think about what is on the other side of the walls, from which points of entry you might expect to encounter intruders and from what firing position you intend to mount your defense.

You are over thinking your your ammo.

With regard to ammo, have you thought about low recoil? Reliability? Accuracy is not going to be an issue because if you get in a firefight inside your home lead is going to fly and both your attacker and you will be in the total dark ... because your eyes will likely be closed. Your suppressor should take care of excessive muzzle flash if it is night time.

IMHO a M4 carbine is not the best choice for home defense against most intruders in a normal break-in or forced entry situation.

 

[Theohazard]

Which is better for my HD scenario, .223 Hornady Tap or 5.56 Hornady T2 Tap both in 75 gr? I read there is a small difference between the bullets and that the velocity difference between the two may be 175-200 fps different.

It's six of one, half dozen of the other for most people. Velocity is not the biggest concern indoors ... penetration is, or rather over-penetration.

For that you want a frangible.

Don't use frangible ammo, use TAP or other lead-core JHP or SP ammo. There are two kinds of frangible .223 ammo, the first is the special defensive lightweight stuff like RCBD and the like. This stuff tends to perform unreliably and not always penetrate far enough. And then there's the frangible training ammo that's designed to break up when it hits steel; the problem is that it doesn't tend to break up reliably in softer materiel like drywall or flesh.

On the other hand, a more traditional. 223 defensive round like Hornady TAP will fragment explosively in flesh and yet still penetrate far enough to be effective, and it will also tend to fragment in building materiel like drywall, which limits its over-penetration compared to defensive handgun or shotgun ammo.

silencer

Silencer or suppressor?

It looks to me like he wrote "silencer".

IMHO a M4 carbine is not the best choice for home defense against most intruders in a normal break-in or forced entry situation.

Compared to what? Compared to a handgun, an AR-15 is less portable and quite a bit louder, but that can be much less of an issue if you have a silencer on it. And the advantage is far more power, lower wall penetration (if you use JHPs or SPs), and usually higher capacity.

And compared to a shotgun, a quality AR-15 is a superior HD weapon in several ways: It's usually shorter, recoil is a lot lower, capacity is a lot higher, penetration through walls is far less (if you use JHPs or SPs), and it's more reliable.

Is an AR-15 the best choice for HD in every situation? No, of course not; no gun is. But it's an excellent choice, especially if you use medium- to lightweight JHP or SP ammo. In my opinion, 75 gr. TAP is a little heavy if you're trying to minimize penetration through walls, but it's not a bad choice at all.

And, keep in mind that ALL ammo will still be potentially deadly after passing through walls; it's just that medium- to lightweight JHP or SP .223 ammo tends to pass through fewer walls than almost anything else.

 

[Sharkbite]

And so it goes

Will this debate never end?

My weapon of choice for 2 legged varmints at anything less then 300 yds is a shortbarreled AR platform. I have used them EXTENSIVELY inside building, vehicles and in outdoor environments.

The 556 with the wrong ammo is horribly over penetrative for home defense in the cities of the USA.

With the RIGHT ammo it becomes one of the LEAST penetrative rounds avail while giving absolutely devastating effect on target.

The lightweight, almost explosive, varmint bullets are great choices for HD. Hornady TAP in the lighter weights would be my go to in that caliber. You dont need, or really want, the heavier more barrier blind ammo that may be used by LE/Mil users.

You're not going to be shooting through auto glass or doors and the like in a HD shooting. Somehing that fragment violently upon impact with anything significant is the ticket

Lastly, there is NO COMPARISON in wounding/stopping ability between Handguns and an AR with proper ammo. The wounds and the effect on a human target are night and day.

I was involved in a shooting in 1993 where i used a handgun (doesnt matter what caliber or ammo). The bullet completely perforated the badguys thoracic cavity at a downward angle, went thru a lung and his Pancreas before exiting and stopping in a flower bed behind him.

He ran 3 blockes, jumped 2 fences, ran thru an Apartment parking garage, ripped open a storage cabinet to ditch his gun ( the bloody hand print on the outside made it pretty easy to find), then hid under some brush onnthe side of the freeway. When found he had almost bleed out, but had he chosen to stay and fight, he had plenty of gas left to go for quite a while. Handguns SUCK at stopping people

Contrast that with a shooting I was in with a 10.5" M4, 1 hit center mass and the guy flopped to the ground like his strings had been cut. That was overseas working as a contract employee so I cant provide many details but the difference in effect was DRAMATIC. I dont have any wound data, as we didnt stick around. The round might have severed the spine and that resulted in the instant flop, I dont know, but ive seen more then a couple guys shot with 556 rounds, and they WORK

 

[CodeSection]

Airborne: Yes, 35 yards long and maybe around ~ 20 yards wide....sorta large great room in center of home with wings.... ]. As pointed out By Theohazard, I have a silencer. Good points about entry points and defensible positions. I appreciate the posting.

Theohazard: Thank you for the explanation of the various ammo. I called Hornady regarding the issue with a 16" barrel ~ "Due to the longer duration of peak pressure produced by Superformance™, the post peak/declining port pressure at common carbine and mid-length gas port locations is still higher than that produced by standard propellant." They said it would be an issue on my Tavor. They recommended .223 Match 75 Grain BTHP Hollow Point Ammo by Hornady - 8026 over any TAP. I ended up buying some 8026. On a side note, I haven't had a chance to try the silencer yet (too damn hot), but again, thank you for your education about them that you provided me months ago.

Sharkbite: Thank you for sharing your experiences. It solidifies my position even further regarding my use of a .223/5.56 for my HD scenario. I realize my situation is a little unique.