.223 enough for deer

A gut shot is poor shot placement, because puncturing the digestive tract doesn't immediately begin causing the brain to die. I wouldn't consider it ethical to take a shot that I can't guarantee is going to cause an immediately lethal wound. If that means not getting a shot at all, so be it. Taking a less than perfect shot and only wounding a game animal is unsportsmanlike behavior whether you're wielding a .22lr or a cannon. If your weapon isn't accurate enough, or if you aren't a good enough marksman to place your shot into the deer's vitals under whatever conditions, you wait for a better shot, one you know you can make, or you don't take the shot at all. You put a .223 TSX through a deer's heart and lungs, and it will kill it just as dead as any other bullet penetrating those organs. You make a bad shot and you can wound a deer even with a .300 Wby mag.

And we're talking about harvesting deer with bullets, not blizzards. A deer's flesh might keep out the cold better than an insurgent's unkempt beard, but it certainly isn't any more bulletproof than his. You really think humans aren't as tough as other members of the animal kingdom? You ought to see SEALs or Spetsnaz in training. The human body can take just as much punishment as any similar-sized animal, and any weapon that will reliably kill a man is quite adequate for the taking of medium-sized game animals.
 
I think its a great deer cartridge if you know what youre doing. My uncle only hunts with a .223 and all his deer drop in their tracks. A good varmit bullet will absolutely destroy the heart and lungs where a heavier bullet just makes a wound channel. My father hunts with a .22mag, and He's never lost a deer either. I think marksmanship trumps caliber any day.

Nothing makes me chuckle like those guys that hunt eastern whitetails with a .300 win mag. Its too much gun.
 
You really think humans aren't as tough as other members of the animal kingdom?
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Yes, I do. The average deer is much tougher than the average human. Deer jump higher, run faster, run for farther distances, have far keener perception, don't require houses for shelter, and live in blizzards, rainstorms, and other conditions that humans simply can't endure. And they do it day after day. Without doctors, television, and fast food. I've seen deer run for miles after being gut shot. I seriously doubt that the average human could run for miles after being gut shot. Heck, the average exceptional human (like a SEAL) probably couldn't do it, either. Humans just are not built for that kind of endurance. They sure can type well, though. :D

Look, if you want to hunt deer with a .223, do it. That may be OK in your state. But with larger deer in the northern states, the .223 is great until the shooter screws up and pulls a gut shot. A larger caliber gives the shooter a little more killing power after pulling a gut shot; the deer may still run, but hopefully not as far as it would with a smaller caliber. Likewise, a larger caliber smashes through bone and penetrates better than a smaller caliber. Which is the rationale for state laws requiring minimum calibers and/or minimum foot pounds of energy for deer hunting.

I understand the .223 may be fine for small-sized deer in certain areas of the country. But it is not fine for larger deer in other areas of the country, Which is why it is illegal to shoot deer with a .223 in many states. JMHO.
 
Just because a cartridge will kill a dear doesn’t’ mean it’s an appropriate cartridge to use. The .223 is not a deer cartridge.
 
Big Car

Driving A bigger Car doesn't make you A better Driver. That said you could also apply this thought to our discussion. SHOT PLACEMENT,SHOT PLACEMENT,SHOT PLACMENT.
 
Yup, everyone who hunts knows about shot placement. And being sportsmanlike. And about waiting to take a perfect shot. And about taking the perfect shot.

But stuff still happens. Maybe the deer moves at the exact moment that you pull the trigger. Or your scope is a little off. Or the unthinkable -- you pull the shot just a little! :eek: I know, I know, that would never happen, all of your shots are always perfectly placed. Even though your heart is pounding, you are breathing hard, you are excited, it is windy, and the deer doesn't stand perfectly still like it is supposed to. :D
 
Too Much

If A 7mm Mag. or A 300win are perfect for moose, than don,t you think they are much too much for A whitetail deer? Really, A 243 cal. is about all anyone should need for whitetail. I agree that the 223 and the 22-250 are A little lite for whitetail but in the right hands they can do the job. I have A 223 and to be honest I never shoot deer with it. I perfer to use something that shoots at least A 100gr. bullet. The main thing is to use A gun that will do the job and that you love to shoot whatever the CAL.
 
Nothing makes me chuckle like those guys that hunt eastern whitetails with a .300 win mag. Its too much gun.
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There is no such thing as too much gun. Dead is dead as far as I'm concerned, if you want to hunt deer with a .300 Magnum or a .375 H&H it is the hunters choice. Just like hunting with the .223 is the hunters choice, do I think there are better calibers? Yes, but I will not fault a guy for using one where it is legal to do so. If it is the only rifle you have go ahead and use it but if you have a better choice of rifle in the safe then I have to ask, Why?

The argument if it will kill a human why not a deer? That doesn't work to well for me because the Military dictates what rounds our soldiers (and I'm one)will use. As hunters we don't get told what to use but are generally given some suggestions in our States hunting regulations, and they will tell us as well what isn't legal. As far as I know the only rifle that is too much gun in some States to hunt with is the .50 BMG, and they are more worried about the bullet not stopping more than anything.
 
.500 Nitro Express 3" on a deer would be a bit much unless you're really into deer burgers. :D
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That is a lot of gun, but it would probably do less meat damage than you think. Probably less damage than what a .223 with an improperly selected bullet or any of the standard magnums commonly used would do to a deer. Slow moving bullets really don't tear things up too bad.
 
I suspect these 300 Magnum users are compensating for some less than magnum item in their life. Last deer I saw hit with a 300 magnum (300 Ultramag at about 30 yards) had the front shoulder, neck and head blown off. Only a fricking moron thinks you need something like that for a 140 lb whitetail.

222 is commonly used in Europe. Of course, they are apparently better shots than the average "just shoot it in the ass and eventually it will die" US redneck I see in the woods swilling a MGD and toting large game rifles in the US.

A 223 has many times the energy of the rifles that our grandfathers used to hunt... and certainly more than the muzzle loading rifle or bow that so many of these rednecks use a few weeks prior to breaking out the bambi slaying high powered rifle.

I wouldn't hesitate to use a centerfire 22 with appropriate bullet at normal ranges--which means 100 yards are less in probably 95% of whitetail deer hunting. I may miss the opportunity to take a longer shot, but I'm willing to live with it.
 
That is a lot of gun, but it would probably do less meat damage than you think. Probably less damage than what a .223 with an improperly selected bullet or any of the standard magnums commonly used would do to a deer. Slow moving bullets really don't tear things up too bad.
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True, But at 2100 fps and 5583 ft. lbs. energy at the muzzle I'd wager it would make the deer in question agree that a dirt nap would be in his immediate future... that is if he had time to think. But then you ask

If it is the only rifle you have go ahead and use it but if you have a better choice of rifle in the safe then I have to ask, Why?
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I'd have to agree, Why?

The only reason I carry my .22-250 or .223 while deer hunting is the possibility of a fox, bobcat, or coyote passing by.

Otherwise I'd carry my .45-70. Either rifle will do. But both have disadvantages. Guess I'll have to buy a .243 :D Wife might not like it tho.
 
If you have other firearms in your safe- Why?

The answer is simple- if you are out hunting something else- for example fox and varmints and a deer or wild pig becomes a target of opportunity.

I have hot far more deer or pig with a .222 than with my .30-30, 7x57, .35 Whelen or .350 Rem Mag put together.

I would not shoot a large deer species like a Sambar with a .222, but when the opportunity affords itself with Fallow or Wild Pig, and I can pick my shot- I will take it.

Under no circumstances will I make a long or difficult shot though with a .222 on game larger than varmints.
 
One round for varmits, yotes, and deer + long range accuracy + the power to get the job done + manageable recoil = .257 Roberts (even better the .257 Roberts Ackley Improved). The once and still most useful cartridge ever created. :)





Don't know why but I just had to say that. I don't even own the .257 Roberts but I've got this itch for one.
 
Loaded4yote and Lawyer Daggit, I don't live where the .22 caliber center fires are legal to hunt anything other than game animals classified as small game. In fact in Colorado it is illegal to hunt small game during any big game season with a firearm larger than a .22 cal unless you have a big game tag on you. In fact I've seen the Wardens ticket people for hunting varmints with their big game rifles after they filled their tags so that only leads me to believe that the reverse would be true. I wouldn't want to get caught carrying a .22 caliber rifle and an unfilled big game tag during season you might just get nailed for poaching.

To me I'd rather carry the bigger rifle and ruin a few pelts on varmints than have a bullet failure on a deer. I don't have the luxury of taking out targets of opportunity while hunting small game. While I know the .22 center fire rifles will work, I have no doubt in my mind that they are not ideal calibers for NA deer.
 
Sorry, taylorce1.

I wasn't taking a potshot at you or your oppinion. Please don't take it that way. I was simply making a jest about the comment of being to much gun for whitetails.

I realize that not every state allows .224 cal. rifles centerfire or otherwise to be used for larger game. And with good reason. As this thread shows just about everyone here agrees that .223 is on the lighter end of the caliber selection to use for whitetail. And again I agree with you when you ask "Why?"

My personal reason, as I stated before, was for the smaller critters that venture to close to my stand while I'm after Mr. thurdypointer. I choose to carry either the .223 or .22-250 because it cuts down on the sowing. And by doing so I can hopefully collect enough hides to sell and purchase a new rifle :D or possibly a niffty guided hunt to Colorado. Granted this definately limits my chances to bag Mr. Deer and put meat in the freezer because I have to be careful and pass up any shot I don't feel comfortable with.

And I belive that is the key. From .223 to M61A1 Vulcan Cannon, if it's legal and you feel comfortable with the shot. By all means use it.

Now, just need to get that M61A1 Legalized and Sporterized for us critter hunters :rolleyes:


Again please take no offence to my statement. It was just my oppinion. For what its worth.
 
confidence

I have hunted whitetail deer for forty-five years,started with the 30-30 cal. and have killed deer with many different calibers including 223,22-250,243,30-06 and 7mm. mag.,even killed A few with my SKS. I learned years ago whatever Cal. you use the important think is take the good shot. If you can't get the right shot pass on it. If you make A bad shot what difference does it make what cal. you're using. At best you are in for A long tracking job. I find no satisfaction in draging A gut shot deer for A mile or two in the dark. Shot placment is what its about. Most legal centerfires will do the job if you do yours.
 
Sorry, taylorce1.

I wasn't taking a potshot at you or your oppinion. Please don't take it that way. I was simply making a jest about the comment of being to much gun for whitetails.
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None taken, I was just explaining really how I don't get targets of opportunity like there are in some States and the rest of the world. One deer a year for most hunters where I'm at, no pigs either but plenty of coyotes and prairie dogs. I'd hate to loose any animal from using a marginal caliber, hasn't happend yet and hope it never does.
 
Yep works good

I have used the 60 gr Nosler Partition and the Speer 70 gr to kill deer, with the .223 and the .22-250. I have never had them fail. Despite the conventional wisdom of the .243 with a 90 gr and up these two .22 weights perform well. The 64gr Winchester may work as well, but I have never used it.
 
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