223 -22-250 or 243

Most kids as young as 8 are not ready to hunt deer. In Maine it's not legal for kids to hunt until they're 10.

That said, Federal Premium makes factory ammo for the .223 Rem with a 60gr. Nosler Partition, which can be a fine deer bullet. My Tikka .223 with the standard 1:12 twist stabilizes the 60 grain Nosler Partition quite well, but my grandkids use my two .243s.

I've seen what less than great hits with a .22-250 Rem do on deer and it's often not good. I don't know if there are readily available factory rounds for that caliber that are good for deer hunting. I don't recommend using varmint bullet factory loads for deer.

I used the .22-250 to kill deer in the past, but the 1:14 twist couldn't stabilize 60 grain bullets, so I was handloading 55 grain solid-based bullets that were available back then. It's unclear whether the 1:14 twist would stabilize 55 grain Barnes TSX bullets or Nosler 60 grain Partitions. Mine wouldn't stabilize 60 grain bullets.
 
I guess if some of you have luck killing deer with a 223, then power to you. Maybe with the right bullet it can be done with predictable success. Now the 223 may produce the energy needed to kill a deer, but I thought a heavy bullet like something with at least 90 grains would give the needed momentum to bust through bones, and that's where the 6 mm bullets come in. However, I am not always stuck in a old school time warp, I'm open to new ideas when they work.
 
coyota1 said:
I guess if some of you have luck killing deer with a 223, then power to you. Maybe with the right bullet it can be done with predictable success. Now the 223 may produce the energy needed to kill a deer, but I thought a heavy bullet like something with at least 90 grains would give the needed momentum to bust through bones, and that's where the 6 mm bullets come in. However, I am not always stuck in a old school time warp, I'm open to new ideas when they work.
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Momentum is what busts through bone. Momentum is not a factor of weight alone, it is weight times velocity. While the 243 might have "more" than a 223, "more" doesn't matter, if you have "enough". A properly built .224 caliber bullet will have plenty, under the right conditions.

Personally, I'd rather have a 22-250 or 243 for just about any purpose over a 223 but it's not because I couldn't do the job with a 223. I just measured the differences and decided what's more important to me.

I'd shoot a deer with my .204Ruger in the blink of an eye under the right circumstances.

I've seen what 55gr .243 bullets do to deer. Trust me, it's plenty. Pushing that same bullet weight a couple hundred feet per second slower won't make it ineffective. The margin is smaller, for sure, but it's still there.
 
If the kid is a good shot, I suppose a 223 would work Ok. Not the best round for deer, particularly for a sloppy shooter. My cousin (great shooter) made up a short barrelled and short LOP 223 single shot for his son and he took the time to teach his son how to shoot. The kid killed a lot of deer with that little rifle and all with one shot. On the other hand, a couple of my nephews tried to take deer with Dad's 223 Handi-rifle, but the kids were not good shooters, and they weren't using bullets of the quality available today. A lot of wounded deer were lost. I think that the 243 would allow for more shooter error, if that's a concern.
 
Picher said:
I used the .22-250 to kill deer in the past, but the 1:14 twist couldn't stabilize 60 grain bullets, so I was handloading 55 grain solid-based bullets that were available back then. It's unclear whether the 1:14 twist would stabilize 55 grain Barnes TSX bullets or Nosler 60 grain Partitions. Mine wouldn't stabilize 60 grain bullets.
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You're right the 1:14 twist of the Tikka probaly will not stabalize the 55 grain TSX or 60 grain Partition. However it will stabalize the 45 grain TSX bullet as the little H&R my buddy's son used is a 1:12 twist barrel. It wouldn't stabalize anything but regular 55 grain and lighter bullets. So when he wanted to use it on his TX hunt my friend handloaded those 45 grain bullets, the 50 grain TSX might work as well but he didn't try any.
 
Love my 22-250, wouldn't want to be wo one. 223 will be cheaper to shoot, 243 probably better suited for hunting.
 
.223 would be best cost wise. Younger shooters need lots of practice (We all do) and the lower costs of shooting .223 would allow you do do more of it.

As already pointed out there are newer great hunting projectiles for the .223 that make it a good choice for small to medium game.

I too am a fan of the 22-250 but it takes 6-8 grains more of powder to reload. It adds up if you shoot a bunch.
 
.243 all the way. Down load it to shoot 55gr for yotes and ground squirrels or load it up for deer and hog. Very versatile and hardly any recoil.
 
You're right the 1:14 twist of the Tikka probaly will not stabalize the 55 grain TSX or 60 grain Partition.
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I thought the 22 250 1 in 14" twist was do to the higher velocities it generates. With a 60 grain bullet you can generate 3500-3600 fps with a 22 250 vs. 2900-3100 with a 223. The faster the bullet leaves the muzzle, the faster the spin.
 
I've shot the 63 gr Sierra SMP in my 220 Swift with great accuracy. It was a very mild load that the puny 22-250 should be able to duplicate. The Partition is about the same size and shape as that Sierra bullet and I'd be quite surprised if the 22-250 wouldn't stabilize it. I've got the Partitions and I've got the 220, but I just can't get around to tinkering with that right now. The Lyman 49th gives load data for the 63 gr Sierra SMP in the 22-250. That load data should be close enough to use for the Partition - working up from a starter load, of course. It's certainly worth a try.
 
I've not shot the .243, but have shot a lot of 6mm Remington; the 243's ballistic twin. The recoil is noticeable and I'd not want to hand one to a sub-teen shooter unless I'd put together some lower powered handloads.

The 223 and the 22-250, otoh, are quite tame and both are very accurate. Cloverleaf accuracy is the norm with my old 788 Rem. in 22-250. Bought it new 45 years ago for less than $100. My 6mms are no slouch accuracy-wise, but neither come close to that 22-250.

My vote goes to the 22-250; especially if you can find one with a fast enough twist to stabilize the heavier 22 cal. bullets. Very satisfying to shoot at both targets and varmits without enough recoil to cause flinching or develop other bad habits. Let the kid develop as a shooter before trying to make him into a big game hunter.

If you manage to find a 788 (in any caliber), you can cut down the wooden stock to fit the kid and later buy a full-size plastic stock to fit him when he's grown. Nearly all of them offer gilt-edged accuracy.
 
If you manage to find a 788 (in any caliber), you can cut down the wooden stock to fit the kid and later buy a full-size plastic stock to fit him when he's grown. Nearly all of them offer gilt-edged accuracy.
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:eek:
 
coyota1 said:
I thought the 22 250 1 in 14" twist was do to the higher velocities it generates. With a 60 grain bullet you can generate 3500-3600 fps with a 22 250 vs. 2900-3100 with a 223. The faster the bullet leaves the muzzle, the faster the spin.
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You have to try it, to know for sure if the .22-250 will stabilize the 60 grain NPT. The reason the 55 grain TSX probably won't stabilize because it is a longer bullet since copper weighs less than lead. It might actually be larger than the Partition bullet.

The .22-250 was developed as a varmint cartridge and usually that means light jacketed bullets that violently expand. It was never intended to be used for the same things the .223 is used for. The only reason the .223 usually has a faster twist is because of the Military needing heavier bullets in the 5.56X45 so to take full advantage of most factory loads the .223 needs a faster twist.
 
taylorce1, the 223 was originally designed to stabilize a 55 gr bullet. The original military 5.56 was a 55 gr hard ball 1 in 12" twist. The 22 250 was designed to get optimum accuracy with a 55 gr bullet, at least that's the notion I had.
 
Everyone has stated that a 22-250 needs a faster twist. Does any manufacturer make one or do I have to get one custom made. If so any suggestions on where to get one. Sounds like that would be a great gun
 
coyota1 said:
taylorce1, the 223 was originally designed to stabilize a 55 gr bullet. The original military 5.56 was a 55 gr hard ball 1 in 12" twist. The 22 250 was designed to get optimum accuracy with a 55 gr bullet, at least that's the notion I had.
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Yes the military quickly went to a 62 grain ball ammunition requiring a faster twist than a 1:12. Who knows for sure what bullet that they intended the .22-250 to be used with it had been wild catted for several years before it was commercialized. It was very popular for pushing sub 50 grain bullets past 4000 fps.

crowsing said:
Everyone has stated that a 22-250 needs a faster twist. Does any manufacturer make one or do I have to get one custom made. If so any suggestions on where to get one. Sounds like that would be a great gun
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I don't know if anyone is making a faster twist .22-250 currently. IIRC Savage or Remington maybe both made one a few years back with a 1:8 or 1:9 twist. I don't think it was that popular as without support of factory ammunition for a fast twist barrel there wasn't much of a demand for the rifles. The guys that wanted a fast twist .22-250 were just building what they wanted.
 
Yes the military quickly went to a 62 grain ball ammunition requiring a faster twist than a 1:12. Who knows for sure what bullet that they intended the .22-250 to be used with it had been wild catted for several years before it was commercialized. It was very popular for pushing sub 50 grain bullets past 4000 fps.
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Well I believe the military used the 55 gr bullet through the Vietnam war, and I believe up to 1984. There was less use for longer range shooting like there is in desert warfare. I believe that is when a heaver bullet and faster twist was put in place.
As for the 22 250, I now recollect the 50 gr was the original bullet weight as it was for the swift. It was the 4000 fps barrier, and that's the reason for the slower 1 in 14" twist.
 
I loved my .22-250 and while I found the 60 grain Hornady bullets didn't shoot especially well in my Remington (1 1/2 minute groups), they didn't keyhole. The 60 grain Nosler Partitions are a bit shorter and may be fine.
 
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