22 wmr semi-auto rifle

The thread definitely got off track. But I think the OP's questions have been answered at this point.

When the 17 HMR and similar rounds came out, I was concerned that the 22 WMR would indeed migrate to the bleachers rather than the playing field. The 5mm rimfie was another one that had great potential (and still does) if a few manufacturers would produce new rifles in the caliber.

The 17 HMR is pretty popular but the 22 WMR is making a resurgence in popularity. You have not seen the 17 HMR ammunition cost coming down much and as a result, it will never be a pure plinking round or have the following that the 22LR has and will have.

The cost in part is manufacturing as the bullet is actually constructed much like a centerfire bullet versus your typical 22LR (heeled design). I don't see the price of either 17 HMR or 22 WMR coming down much in the forseeable future EVEN if both became even more popular.

The 22 Short and 22 Long pretty much lost their popularity because ammunition cost actually went up. The significance of a $0.05 savings per 50-ct box has been lost. They also tend to be less accurate than the 22LR in general. I think that the reason for this is the poliferation of 22 semi-auto rifles and pistols in the market which would not generally cycle automatically either of these two rounds. In the past, having a rifle that you could utilize any of these 22 rimfire rounds was very common and remains common in some actions (pump, lever actions, some bolt actions). These rifles are still manufactured. The 22 Short and CB Short has actually had a bit of a resurgence in popularity probalby due to Walmart and CCI.

I have read that the Remington 597 does just fine in 22 WMR. I would really like to see the new CZ in person and handle one. I don't expect to see higher capacity magazines for either however. Most people just don't blow away 500 rounds of 22 WMR in a day like they might with a 22LR. The higher capacity magazine encourages this type of shooting not that it is bad.
 
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The 22 Short and 22 Long pretty much lost their popularity because ammunition cost actually went up.
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this is hilarious. Of course price went up, because people gave up on them and bought 22lr instead. Didn't we already we explain supply and demand? Same reason why 45acp and 380acp are dieing out, no body wants them anymore due to the 40sw and the influx of pocket 9mm's.

As for a semi auto 22wmr, OP should save his money and get this when it comes out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PYLyzy7IFo&feature=related
 
Evil, I think you should read my entire post relative to the 22 short and long. It wasn't "just price". It was a change in the nature of the market. Fewer people shot shorts and longs because their firearms would not function using them and the $0.05/box years ago was not a significant enough reason to buy them over LR's. After the 1968 Gun Control Act was passed, you had to be at least 18 to buy 22 ammunition. People who thought $0.05/box was significant were eliminated from the retail market.

Market forces are however significant.

If your theory on versatility is correct, nobody would buy regular LR ammunition now and only shoot the hyper velocity stuff and the price would be $2.00 a box.

It is EXTREMELY unlikely that the 22 Mag will EVER be as popular as the 22LR or cost $2.00 a box. However, I like the 22 Mag and it is a useful cartridge for hunting.

The 45ACP is not dying out and the 380ACP is becoming very popular again. That pretty much demonstrates the your acuity of the marketplace.
 
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The KelTec is what I suggested in the third post, before all the nonsense about the "pointless" 22lr and the supposed demise of the 45 and the 380.
I also disagree with evil monkey's assertion that the 22mag is a poor choice for an SD round. Famous lawman Bill Jordan liked it in the small frame snub for a back up. In a 30 shot compact folding stock semi auto carbine with the right ammo, it would be a great choice.
 
I also disagree with evil monkey's assertion that the 22mag is a poor choice for an SD round
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22wmr from a pistol is really no different than 22lr. The HP's never expand either. It's garbage.

From a rifle, 22wmr is certainly better from an energy standpoint, but terminally, once again it's trash. HP's hasve a bad tendency to fragmentate not be able to penetrate deep enough. FBI protocol ballistics gel shows a usual 5-7 inches of penetration instead of the minimum of 12 inches.

You can't trust neither 22lr or 22wmr for defense.....but the 22wmr is still better than the 22useless, I mean 22lr.
 
Evil monkey you should get educated to the facts before you come here spewing this drivel. The only thing thats trash is your posts.
 
Pick a post. There are tons of stories out there on the world wide web that proves the .22lr is anything but useless.

You say the .45acp is dying out and I say you are wrong again. Do you have any idea how much better the .45acp is compared to the .40S&W? Even if its not, there are millions of 1911 owners out there who will be needing ammo for many decades to come, myself included.

I dont really care what your hangup with the .22lr is but to say its useless is an ignorant statement to say the least.
 
Evil Monkey, I think you should stick with the 22 WMR. You apparently might be a member of the 10's of thousands of 22 Mag owners versus the millions of owners of 22 rifles and handguns. I like the 22 Mag myself, and believe it to be a great general purpose rifle for the woods when you want or need something a bit more powerful than the 22LR.

So what 22 mag firearms do you actually own? What was your suggestion to the OP again after all the 22LR, 45ACP, 380ACP thread diversions started? Oh..., you didn't make one, how interesting? Of course there is the YouTube link (Keltec). I think you're a troll on this thread.
 
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please point out where am I wrong.
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Check ballistics of a .22 mag handgun versus a .22 lr handgun. The mag from a handgun will get ballistics similar to a lr from a rifle.

You can spout your opinions all day long, but the hard fast DATA proves you wrong. :rolleyes:

Nothing wrong with spouting your opinions... I do it frequently. Just don't try to pass your opinions off as "facts". ;)
 
The mag from a handgun will get ballistics similar to a lr from a rifle
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but the terminal effects are no different.

please observe how the penetration and overall tissue disruption is no different from one another.

22lr loads from rifles.....
http://brassfetcher.com/var22lrrifle.html
http://brassfetcher.com/Federal 36 grain Copper Plated Hollow Point .html
http://brassfetcher.com/aguila.html
http://brassfetcher.com/CCI Velocitor 40 grain Gold Dot JHP.html

22wmr from a pistol
http://brassfetcher.com/22 Magnum CCI 30gr Maxi-Mag HP.html
http://brassfetcher.com/22 Magnum CCI 40gr Maxi-Mag JHP.html

also note the lousy penetration of 22wmr from a rifle. Only the winchesters were decent and I still don't trust them.
http://brassfetcher.com/22MagnumVariousRifle.html
 
Thank You For Advice

I think I have settled on what I want using the advice you gentlemen have given. I am looking for a rifle my little petite wife can handle if need be. The Kel Tec RMR 30 looks perfect, 4 lbs, 30 round clip with a laser sightshould be just what I need. Kel Tec says the rifle is scheduled for production the summer of 2012 so I will wait.

I figure with a laser sight, a 30 round clip in 22 WMR and a scared red head that should be all of the backup I would need. If she shoots an intruder 10 or 12 times with a 22 WMR he probably decide to go home. LOL

Thank You for your input and I hope a Flame War has not started.
 
Evil Monkey is quite incorrect that "22wmr from a pistol is really no different than 22lr."

Factoid: .22 Mag in a 6" pistol is more powerful than ANY .22 LR from any RIFLE, no less pistol!
 
Factoid: .22 Mag in a 6" pistol is more powerful than ANY .22 LR from any RIFLE, no less pistol!
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I agree. In fact, a .22 high velocidy lr out of a 6" pistol is more powerful than a .22 standard velocity lr out of a rifle. I have chronographed them.

.22 magnum will never be as inexpensive as .22lr, no matter how popular they become for the simple reason that jacketed bullets are used in them.
40 grain jacketed bullets for reloading centerfire .22's cost $15-20 per 100, that's just the jacketed bullet, not the case, primer, gunpowder, etc.

The .17 rimfires will also never be as cheap as .22 lr for the same reason.
 
Back in the 1980's I tried the 22mag for close range coyote hunting. First rifle was a Marlin tube fed which had serious feeding problems. Second was an H&R semiauto which worked but did not produce satisfactory accuracy(3-4" @ 100 yards)with the ammo available at that time. I finally gave up on it and traded it in on a Mini14(stiil not accurate enough) and then gave up on the semiauto until the AR fad began.
I found the 22mag sufficient to kill coyotes @150 yards with a body hit using HP ammo and my longest measured kill was 185 yards. Mostly I used the 22 mag on running shots fairly close to the hounds since it was less likely to put the dogs off trail. About any hit was good enough with the dogs on track since they would bay the cripple sooner or later.
 
.22 Mag is sometimes referred to as the 125 yard round. First another factoid:

at 100 yards the velocity is the same as a .22 LR at the muzzle!

But because the bullets are flat points (excpet V-Max are they?) the speed starts to drop off precipitously at 125 yards, not that it won't continue to do damage but it ain't no spitzer!
 
Evil Monkey is quite incorrect that "22wmr from a pistol is really no different than 22lr.
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I already posted information that shows the penetration and tissue disruption is the same.

The energy generated doesn't mean a thing.

You guys can spin it any way you want but the information has already been posted and it can't be denied.
 
Bunch of mis-information here. Gotta love the internet world and old myths.

First off, you can reload .223 centerfire for less than .22M. You can get JSP's from midsouth for just over 9 cents each, add 3 cents for a primer, using moderate loads .223 brass will last a long time and is cheap to begin with and then add a couple pennies worth of powder.

Next, .22M from a handgun IS pretty much the same as a .22lr from a rifle. Of coarse it depends on which .22lr load you compare it too. But of coarse, most shooters have a better chance of good shot placement with a rifle than a handgun so even though power is the same, capabilities go to a .22lr rifle. .22m handgun is still just a short range bunny gun.

Next, a .22M at 100 yards isn't more powerful than a .22lr at the muzzle. It's been awhile since I've run the numbers but IIRC a Velocitor is about 75% of a 40gr .22M at 100 yards. I can also tell you that a Velocitor at 50 yards is equal to a MiniMag at the barrel energy wise and I have never noticed a discernable difference in reaction or damage from raccoons between the Velocitor and a .22M. Obviously load selection makes a big difference with the .22lr but the gap is closed considerably since the days of standard velocity or even high velocity .22lrs.

Basically, .22lr ammo cost $1.50- $7/50 as compared to .22M ammo that cost from $9-11/50. What do you get for that extra coin for another gun and ammo? About another 50 yards is it. You're call whether it's worth it.

Don't even think about comparing a .22M to a centerfire. Even the baby centerfires like the .22 Hornet smoke it and centerfires can be loaded for the same cost or less.

LK
 
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