.22 vs. .38 wadcutter

Which is better for home defense?

  • .22 long rifle

    Votes: 4 2.2%

  • .22 mag

    Votes: 6 3.3%

  • .38 special 148 grain wadcutter

    Votes: 105 57.4%

  • buy a .45 ACP, you sissy

    Votes: 68 37.2%
  • Total voters
    183
  • Poll closed .
The US was not using .38 Special during the Phillipine Insurrection. They were using .38 Colt-a much weaker round.
The Filipino "juramentados" were taking drugs, wrapping themselves in layers of heavy leather, and tightly binding their testicles to create an "alternate pain."
The .38 Spl. wadcutter is actually a quite good defensive round. It cuts a nice, clean hole.
 
My actual choice is a .357 Magnum pistol, but usually loaded with 38 +P JHP -- Speer Gold Dot 135 G "Short Barrel", by choice. Wadcutters are for target shooting, or so I was taught. :-)
 
Just to be funny. Also, because I fully expected some people to ignore the fact that I posted only three choices, and try to tell me that anything short of .45 ACP is worthless.
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Well..........yeah, you're probably right about that - why not account for it since some people will throw that in there anyway - makes sense.:D
 
Obviously, . . . my first choice is the 1911, . . . 9 rounds are bg bound in something like 2.5 seconds, . . . which is only possible by the super pros who use a revolver. Lots of firepower out bound in a short time, . . . confuses and cripples quickly, . . . even if it is not lethal.

Second choice is the .38 with the wadcutters, . . . as .22LR is totally notorious for misfires, . . . which will ruin your whole day if HD is the order of that day. And if I may interpolate, . . . if you are using wadcutters, . . . are you a reloader? As such, . . . you have a better handle on the quality of your ammo than buying over the counter .22s.

Third choice would be a Browning Buckmark .22LR, 4 inch barrel, . . . and spend a lot of time learning to shoot large oranges or small grapefruits. This simulates the area of the head you need to hit, . . . shooting for the center of the shape of the head, . . . and shooting until you see a serious change in the demeanor of the bg, . . . also practice quick re-loads just in case you get to slide lock.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
I absolutely LOVE the low flash, low recoil, and low noise of the 148 grain target wadcutter.
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I am not getting a grasp on why low flash or noise is important during a home invasion.

I agree that low recoil helps accuracy, so that's not in question, but what's with the low noise and flash?

I want LOUD hurtful sounds coming out of my firearm, whether or not I hit my target I want it Startling the perp!

6 shots of 148 grain .38's comes to 888 Grains of lead weighing someone down... Where as 10 shots of .22 ammo is a max of 400 grains...

Of course, 10 stinging shots are more distracting than 6, but 6 punches from Tyson, versus 10 punches from Bud Bundy... I'd put my money on Tyson...
 
Much like the flash from a camera momentarily blinds you and leaves an afterimage, so will a large fireball coming out of a short barreled handgun, but much more exagerated. Not a good outcome.
 
Ernest T Bass

.22 vs. .38 wadcutter
Which is better for home defense? .22 long rifle, .22 mag, or a .38 special 148 grain target wadcutter?

So I guess my quandary can be distilled down to one simple question: If a .22 caliber can be used successfully by some for home defense, then why would it be so sacrilegious to use a .38 special 148 grain target wadcutter for the same purpose?
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I read an article many years ago which discussed the effectiveness of loading a .38 spl hollow-based wadcutter base out. This essentially made it a huge hollow point bullet. This was about 25 or 30 years ago. Hollow point bullet performance was erratic at that time.

Back to your question, I would choose the .39 spl 148 gr. wadcutter over the .22 rimfire as it should consistently cause more bleeding and therefore cause faster incapacitation of a human threat.
 
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I would NEVER shoot in a level of light that I could NOT clearly make out that the Perp or where my shot flash would impair my sight! Never.

I would rather hit the light switch and present myself as a target than shoot my brother in law by accident because he came home from the bar to my house drunk and afraid to go home to my sister, or some such incident.

Safe in the light is one billion times better than shooting an innocent.

You know I was thinking {this post is making me think}, if something like your daughter or son came into your room because he/she heard a noise, then they're standing there and the perp walks in. WHO the world is going to shoot without at least a little light to see with?

Sure, you could shoot over the top of your child and not hit him/her, but I wouldn't in a million years do it without personally seeing the threat in an identifying light, which by nature, negates the necessity for a suppressed flash, or a low flashing load...

Just my thoughts... Sorry to rip into your thread, but this site is all about "what if's" and "he should have's" So I'm never going to use my firearm, be it shotgun or pistol or Bow and arrow, in the dark.

That is what really confused me about your post. Shock and Awe are your best friends in a home invasion. It will keep your spouse (should you have one) momentarily immobile therefore not a target (moving objects are more of a threat than something not moving) and give you the advantage as the perp is NOT expecting movement and you will draw all of the attention, therefore making it easier to confuse and remove said perp from this plane of existence....

Sorry for talking so much...

koolminx
 
Of the two...

.38 Special wadcutter is much better for defense.

In point of fact, the flat front and sharp front corners of the full wadcutter does a lot of damage to a body. A wound from a full wadcutter is very prone to rapid bleeding. The shootee tends to loose interest fairly quickly. No, there isn't a lot of 'shock', but frankly, no other handgun round has an over abundance of 'shock' either. Maybe full loaded .44 Magnum; but that's a little harsh for in house self defense. By the same token, a shotgun is pretty harsh indoors, too.

The problem of temporary blindness or hearing loss is a reasonable concern. Uusally the hearing impact is mitigated by the adrenaline rush, but the flash can be blinding for a short period. A low pressure round will have a flame closer to red or orange and is easier in this regard. Mid level rounds give yellowish flashes and a Super .38 in the dark looks like an old fashioned flash bulb; not good for night vision.

The answer is a good suppressor, which mitigates sound level and muzzle flash. However, they are not available in all locales. (Tsk, tsk.)

My first choice is a .357 Magnum with fairly stiff loads or a .44 Special or .45 ACP with semi-wadcutter bullets and moderate velocities. But the 148 grain WC load in .38 Special doesn't get as much respect as it deserves.

For the record, I live with my son and daughter in law. They have keys and come in the front door and are very good at identifying themselves. There are currently no children in my home.
 
I simply find it compulsive that I never squeeze the trigger without enough light to fully identify an intruder, therefore there will be no effect from a barrel flash.

That's just me...
 
...but I wouldn't in a million years do it without personally seeing the threat in an identifying light, which by nature, negates the necessity for a suppressed flash, or a low flashing load...
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That's a good point. I guess that if there is enough light to see the threat clearly, then muzzle flash can't be that blinding. I wish that I had someplace to practice firing my revolver in low light levels to see exactly how much of an issue the muzzle flash is.
 
+100 to all those who insist that one should never shoot at a person he cannot identify (Meaning that one cannot make sure it is not a "friendly"); over here there have been many incidents when people shot relatives because they failed to observe that important safety rule. (" be sure of your target")

Whether you use the light switch or a flashlight is entirely up to each individual, but it is a very important factor that should be part of your plan.

Regarding the choice of caliber, whatever you are more proficient with should be the right choice.(preferably 0.38 / 9mm should be considered the minimum caliber IMO) My ECD is a S&W in 0.40 and it is also the first thing I'll grab if I need a gun, because I always keep it within my reach.

Brgds,
Danny
 
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Active shooters = large caliber. One to load for grandma and put away in her dresser drawer = .22 revolver. People who are genuinely hated(land lords, law enforcement, lawyers, prison guards) = may the Lord be with you.
 
Wadcutters punch out a plug (the wad!!!) where round nosed or unexpanded hollowpoints separate tissue and slip through. The separated tissue tends to close itself right up again as opposed to the big cannula left by the wadcutter, which can not.

The load I mentioned, 4 gr of HP38 or W231 behind a 148 gr LHBWC, is definitely not a target load. It's a target bullet but the loading is right on the cusp of a +P loading. It's a fairly powerful load; it's accurate, easy to shoot and cheap. Decent hollowpoints can cost a bunch more. And, at low, .38 SPL velocities, one is not guaranteed any hollowpoint expansion anyway.

Oh yeah: No way I would ever pick any .22 rimfire over a .38 SPL. Never. A good .45 works for me, though. Gotta admit to that one. I have a M1917; I'd love to load wadcutters for it. Someday....
 
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The US was not using .38 Special during the Phillipine Insurrection. They were using .38 Colt-a much weaker round.
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Correct- IIRC the .38LC military load used a ~130gr round-nose lead bullet sauntering along at ~700 fps. The original .38 Special load cooked up by S&W hot-rodded the .38LC with a 158gr round-nose lead bullet at ~750 fps. Neither load was particularly effective, but again, they were using round-nose lead bullets, which don't work worth a darn compared to wadcutters or modern hollowpoints.

I once read some press reports from the turn of the 20th century touting the then-new .38 Special round, amusingly comparing the penetration and effectiveness of the .38Spl to the .38LC by counting the number of 1/2" pine boards it would punch through! While I was reading this, I was thinking how useful this information might be if I'm ever attacked by dimensional lumber. ;)
The .38 Spl. wadcutter is actually a quite good defensive round. It cuts a nice, clean hole.
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I've read about early ballistic gelatin tests in the 50s and 60s comparing the effectiveness of .38Spl defensive ammo at the time, and a 148gr target wadcutter actually deposited more energy into the gelatin than most of the other loads in the test; it was beaten by the fabled 158gr LSWCHP +P "FBI load", but not by much! Despite its relative lack of speed, that big flat front edge cuts a nasty entry hole, and the bullet tends to flatten and/or tumble as it penetrates, increasing the damage.
The load I mentioned, 4 gr of HP38 or W231 behind a 148 gr LHBWC, is definitely not a target load. It's a target bullet but the loading is right on the cusp of a +P loading.
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FWIW I've been cautioned that using LHBWCs with a load this hot may blow the skirt off the bullet and leave it in the barrel, with potentially disastrous consequences when the next round comes along. :eek: YMMV of course. IMHO a LDEWC would probably be safer.
 
So if I use a fully automatic .22lr rifle with a 50 round mag is that better than a five shot snubbie in .38?
What if I load my .38 in a .357 lever rifle, does that trump a Glock 21 in.45?

Wait I got it, how about .22 mag with depleted uranium bullets in a Ruger 10/22, against a .45 Liberator single shot?

Geez this is a hard question.
 
FWIW I've been cautioned that using LHBWCs with a load this hot may blow the skirt off the bullet....
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carguychris:

That's a standard, published Hodgdon load with Hodgdon's own powder. I had some guy on another forum say something similar so I referred him to the page below:

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Nevertheless, he was still very adamant about it so I even called Hodgdon to make sure that there was no typo on their website. They said that it was correct and just fine for any and all .38 SPL guns, not just the +P guns, but all of them. I can live with that. I've loaded this load thousands of times with nary a mishap. It's a great load, powerful and accurate.

IMHO a LDEWC would probably be safer.
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Since the double ended wadcutter is solid and has no cavity on the back end, the pressure would be much greater than it would be, all other things equal, with a hollowbased wadcutter, due to the much lesser combustion space in the shell.
 
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