.22 short in mouseguns

S

simonrichter

New member
...there used to be some small pocket guns in .22 short. Given that both .22lr and the .25 acp are considered only marginally suitable for SD by most, I wonder how .22 short could have any effect at all...

Or maybe due to the short barrel, the difference in performance between 22lr and .22 short isn't that huge?
 
I find your post interesting because I have an old (1902-1914) Hopkins & Allen .22 short revolver (XL Double Action) that I'm tinkering on. I just got it out and fired a handful of CB .22 shorts, and the hammer spring broke. It's gonna be a challenge to get a replacement fashioned since Numerich is out of stock.

If I remember correctly these were "bicycle guns"; something you'd carry on a bike ride through the country to discourage dogs and critters that would bother you. Today we'd carry a squirt gun with an ammonia solution or pepper spray.

I can not imagine they would ever be seriously considered for defense against the two legged critters that might bother someone. But they are a hoot to shoot if you can find ammo. Anyone who's ever shot this tiny revolver has grinned or giggled at the little "pop" when it fires.
 
Hey, cool cc-hangfire, I too have that revolver and just this past Saturday
I holstered it to my grandson while we were out moreling. He
thought that was really neat to carry a loaded (.22shorts) hand gun around in the woods just like grandpa.
 
cc-hangfire- I make leaf springs, if you have the broken spring.

Now- .22 short was developed as a self defense cartridge. It evolved into a round that does very well from short barrels-something the LR can't accomplish. The little cartridge also feeds much better than the LR. When tested from a mini revolver, the short almost penetrated a Second Chance ballistic vest.
To say the short could have no effect at all shows you have never played with .22 shorts. While it's not a .45 auto, no one wants to get shot with a short, and it can be very deadly.
As far as usefulness- shorts used to cost much less than longs or LR, and they work very well for plinking or small game. At reasonable distances the short will do most of what the LR will do.
Don't sell the short short!
 
Thanks for the info on the cartridge, Bill D. I've only shot the low power CB shorts from this revolver, so I am likely underestimating what a regular short would do. I'm not gonna volunteer to get shot with a short!!

(I spent a couple of hours tonight & made a serviceable hammer spring from a rake tine although I think the trigger pull is now about 15#. I may still need to contact you if my make-do spring doesn't work out.)
 
Back in another time zone, shorts were indeed cheaper and as such I shot a lot of them. a lot of small game fell victim to my single shot Stevens and the number of Starlings shot of the cheery tress were uncountable. A whole lot of fun.
 
I've only shot the low power CB shorts from this revolver, so I am likely underestimating what a regular short would do. I'm not gonna volunteer to get shot with a short!!
Click to expand...

CBs are not the same as .22 shorts. They are even shorter and I think they only use the force of a primer to propel the bullet. Shorts were originally developed for self defense in the 1850s. The Smith and Wesson Model 1 was chambered in .22 short. A modern gun made just for them can get pretty small. The only one I know of is this tiny revolver from North American Arms.

the_tiny_22_short_NAA_mini.jpg


Is it a preferred choice for defense? No. It's just at the extreme end of the concealment trade-off spectrum.
 
CBs are not the same as .22 shorts. They are even shorter and I think they only use the force of a primer to propel the bullet.
Click to expand...
CB Short is a different round than the old CB cap.
The older cap had an 18 grain conical ball giving it the CB name.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_CB
The original .22 CB cartridge has the same case as the .22 BB, but there are now low-power .22 rounds sold as .22 CB Short and .22 CB Long which come in the more common .22 rimfire cartridge cases
Click to expand...
the .22 BB Cap was the first rimfire cartridge, dating back to 1845. It has no separate propellant charge, relying on the impulse created by the primer alone to fire a round lead ball.i
Click to expand...
The CB Short has a 29 grain round nose bullet and the same case as the short.

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=3&loadNo=0026
 
Here are a few of mine.
I couldn't upload any more pictures because of file size, or previous usage.
I have a Bernardelli baby, 2 NAA short mini revolvers, 4 Aces derringer, Astra Cub, Beretta Minx, Beretta Minx M-4, and I have a Galesi .25 with a brand new .22 short upper. One of these days I'll find the upper and install it!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1591.JPG
    IMG_1591.JPG
    42.1 KB · Views: 107
  • llama1718.jpg
    llama1718.jpg
    25.3 KB · Views: 98
Last edited:
Bill, where did the grips on the NAA come from? I usually don't play "dress up" with my guns, but those really look cool. Kind of a deep concealment BBQ gun. Or maybe cool open carry in one of those belt buckles made for them.
 
.22 shorts used to be as deadly as a .45 ACP.

.22 shorts used to be as deadly as a .45 ACP,,,
They just took you a lot longer to die.

In pre-penicillin times,,,
Gut infections were near impossible to cure.

They were effective in pocket sized self defense guns,,,
Because no one wanted to be shot with anything.

Aarond

.
 
I've fired .22shorts and .22WMR from 1.125" NAA barrels into phone books and out of these tiny barrels the .22shorts penetrated just as deeply as the magnums.
 
While it's certainly not the ONLY reason why mouseguns were chambered in .22 Short rather than .22LR, or even a predominant reason, it's worth noting that the overall length spec for a .22LR cartridge is slightly longer than the spec for a .25 ACP cartridge.

Therefore, if a gun is designed for absolute minimum size with .25 ACP, it's usually easier to rechamber it for the shorter .22S cartridge rather than the longer .22LR cartridge. This is particularly true because .25 ACP is semi-rimmed and thus inherently prone to rimlock, so pistol designers have a compelling reason to design a magazine that's no larger than it absolutely needs to be; excess room in the fore-aft direction could give the cartridge rims room to jump over one another.
 
I believe 22 shorts were so popular because they were the first metallic cartridge on the market. While they were underpowered when compared to other cartridges of the time they were a lot easier to handle and load into a firearm. 22 LR was designed almost 30 years after 22 short.

A lot of guns were made in 22 short 100+ years ago.

To compare the 2 is like comparing a car from the 1920’s vs a car from the 1950’s and asking why anyone would drive a Ford model T. They both were very popular in their time and fortunately there have been many advancements since then.
 
Cheapshooter- I made the grips. Thanks.

Aarondhgraham- "They were effective in pocket sized self defense guns,,,
Because no one wanted to be shot with anything." So, you know people who don't mind being shot today? :rolleyes:

Carguychris- I have never, ever, had an instance of rimlock with a .25 acp.
Actually, the .22 long is the better fit for .25 acp guns and some were made for the long. Short guns require a spacer in the magazine.

Reddog81- both the long rifle and the short have kept up with the times. Your analogy is not a good one. Modern .22 shorts are probably more versatile than the .22lr. Neither one is outdated. The LR was designed as a RIFLE cartridge-it develops max velocity in about 13" of barrel.
 
Last edited:
Here are some more pictures. There are a couple of .25s in there- a lightweight Browning and a Beretta model 20, but the rest are .22 short guns:







 
40-something years ago I fired several .22 shorts from a snub revolver at an old washing machine.
None penetrated.

If you consider betting your life on that caliber, you're very foolish.
Denis
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top