.22 Rim Fire KaBoom
- Thread starter Gbro
- Start date
Live and learn !!!
Be Safe !!!
Perhaps before but not, as long as I stay away from Federal Bulk .....
With the breech open, you may feel, what you think, is the hammer releasing but it is not dropping on anything. The bolt is keeping the hammer blocked. Once in battery the hammer is now allowed to strike the rear of the firing pin. Again, the hammer will not stike anything til the bolt is in fully closed position. ....
Be Safe !!!
Poodleshooter
New member
It happens now and again. My 10/22 doesn't do it, but a friend's used to do it with Winchester Xperts.
I think one of the most commonly found OOB .22lr firing weapons is an AR with a Ciener type conversion kit.
Over on arfcom forums there's a sticky post for people to comment on OOB firing with their Ciener or other "insert" type .22lr conversion kits.
Mine has done it once or twice over a few thousand rounds. You typically get a case head blowout or a case head donut at least, though mine wasn't a complete separation as in this thread's OP's circumstance.
Keep that eye protection on!
I think one of the most commonly found OOB .22lr firing weapons is an AR with a Ciener type conversion kit.
Over on arfcom forums there's a sticky post for people to comment on OOB firing with their Ciener or other "insert" type .22lr conversion kits.
Mine has done it once or twice over a few thousand rounds. You typically get a case head blowout or a case head donut at least, though mine wasn't a complete separation as in this thread's OP's circumstance.
Keep that eye protection on!
Back from the Test Day,
Firearms used; 1985 prod. 10-22, Mark II Ruger pistol & H S Sport King.
Ammo used, Fed Bulk, American Eagle (also Feds) and Win Wildcats.
The Ruger 10-22, although there was a hammer drop with bolt open .160" and more, this firing pin would not mark a primer unless the bolt was within .030" of battery. And then the rifle would not fire.
This was mostly done after a round was chambered normally, however after a broken piece of the tooth pic stuck to the chamber face at less than .030" (30 thousands of an inch)I was then able to see very light firing pin strike marks and the rifle never fired. What it would do is drop the hammer that then would strike the bottom of the bolt there-by interfering with the hammer striking the firing pin just as Pahoo stated.
The next test was done with the Mark II pistol.
Again the firing mechanism would click at .040 (+-.005").
I did not get any firing pin contact until the bolt was closer than .015" and that was hard to measure because the tooth pic was sheared off each time the trigger was pulled. This pistol never fired OOB.
The next test was with the High Standard Sport King. This one would drop the hammer at .065" OOB. I was able to fire this pistol at .020" OOB a couple of times. The indication on the fired case was a very slight convex or doming of the case head.
Interestingly, During my range session for my Sept. CCC, I had a student firing his Colt Woodsmaster that domed every spent case. that pistol fired just fine and we didn't notice this deformity of the spent cases until we were cleaning up the range and that student had left the range. I did give him a batch of the cases and suggested that he have the pistol looked at.
I have asked the owner of the 10-22 that had this original mishap if I can test that rifle.
I do have cartridges and spent cases saved from today's testing and will post when I have quality pictures.
Firearms used; 1985 prod. 10-22, Mark II Ruger pistol & H S Sport King.
Ammo used, Fed Bulk, American Eagle (also Feds) and Win Wildcats.
The Ruger 10-22, although there was a hammer drop with bolt open .160" and more, this firing pin would not mark a primer unless the bolt was within .030" of battery. And then the rifle would not fire.
This was mostly done after a round was chambered normally, however after a broken piece of the tooth pic stuck to the chamber face at less than .030" (30 thousands of an inch)I was then able to see very light firing pin strike marks and the rifle never fired. What it would do is drop the hammer that then would strike the bottom of the bolt there-by interfering with the hammer striking the firing pin just as Pahoo stated.
The next test was done with the Mark II pistol.
Again the firing mechanism would click at .040 (+-.005").
I did not get any firing pin contact until the bolt was closer than .015" and that was hard to measure because the tooth pic was sheared off each time the trigger was pulled. This pistol never fired OOB.
The next test was with the High Standard Sport King. This one would drop the hammer at .065" OOB. I was able to fire this pistol at .020" OOB a couple of times. The indication on the fired case was a very slight convex or doming of the case head.
Interestingly, During my range session for my Sept. CCC, I had a student firing his Colt Woodsmaster that domed every spent case. that pistol fired just fine and we didn't notice this deformity of the spent cases until we were cleaning up the range and that student had left the range. I did give him a batch of the cases and suggested that he have the pistol looked at.
I have asked the owner of the 10-22 that had this original mishap if I can test that rifle.
I do have cartridges and spent cases saved from today's testing and will post when I have quality pictures.
My biggest reason for believing in out of battery firing is that the case was sheared off so cleanly, at what was probably the very edge of the chamber, and exploded into a flower shaped cup. that case would not have opened up like that if it was supported by the chamber, and the most logical reason for it being sheared off straight was that it expanded violently against the sharp edge of the chamber.
There is another possible scenario.
A partial blockage. The blowback action will start to eject before the pressure is equalized if the bullet has not left the barrel. if pressures are still at peak when the bolt opens, the shell will explode. The bursting shell would disengage the extractor, and the case would, once again, shear off at the chamber's edge.
What could cause a barrel obstruction of this nature? enough to cause the thing to open the breach before the bullet left the barrel? Would you look for a barrel ring?
There is another possible scenario.
A partial blockage. The blowback action will start to eject before the pressure is equalized if the bullet has not left the barrel. if pressures are still at peak when the bolt opens, the shell will explode. The bursting shell would disengage the extractor, and the case would, once again, shear off at the chamber's edge.
What could cause a barrel obstruction of this nature? enough to cause the thing to open the breach before the bullet left the barrel? Would you look for a barrel ring?
Dr. Strangelove
New member
I've owned a Ruger 10/22 for about 25 years, and I can't even begin to guess how many rounds I have down the barrel. 1000+ per year, even counting the many years I didn't shoot.
Anyway, it's happened to me a handful of times, and it's always looked like the cartridge got turned just sideways enough where the bolt impacted the rim/primer mixture and was able to set off the cartridge. I've seen split cases, half cases, etc.
Shoot enough rim-fire and it's going to happen. Wear your eyes and ears and be sure everyone around you does as well.
Anyway, it's happened to me a handful of times, and it's always looked like the cartridge got turned just sideways enough where the bolt impacted the rim/primer mixture and was able to set off the cartridge. I've seen split cases, half cases, etc.
Shoot enough rim-fire and it's going to happen. Wear your eyes and ears and be sure everyone around you does as well.
BrunoNorway
New member
This might be caused by corrosion to the projectile. If the projectile gets a lesser diameter, the pressure might decrees, causing a different pattern of ignition. This might lead to the firing getting a more explosion like character.
I know this sound strange. It was my gunsmith-teacher who first told me about this phenomena. I bet some of the avid reloaders in here might confirm this.
I know this sound strange. It was my gunsmith-teacher who first told me about this phenomena. I bet some of the avid reloaders in here might confirm this.
Briandg posted;
The bullet that was extracted from the barrel was not felt by the owner and the 1st he knew about it was when it fell out of the breach upon running the cleaning rod through.
The bullet has no marks to either end to indicate even the cleaning rod. I have roded bullets and they are noticeable to the point a hammer is generally needed. This bullet has rifling groves and the lube groves are gone.
I still have to think that a hang fire could present all the evidence i see but the owner says that it just blew with the pull of the trigger. I am going to interview his 2 children also.
I showed what was left of the cartridge to my drugest, he is a collector and shooter and he told me about a similar situation he had back in the 70's when shooting one of those little Browning auto's with Winchester ammo. When the rifle KaBoomed on him it left the case head embedded in his fore arm. He found out shortly after that Winchester had a recall on that lot of rimfire ammo and he made the call. A rep came to his house (300 miles north of Minneapolis) and took the ammo and rifle. The rifle was replaced by Winchester and he heard no more on this.
All I can say at this point is I do not have ANY answer's.
Dr. S posted;
As for the barrel obstruction, i have questioned the party and there was no malfunctions preceding this incident. That is not to say there wasn't as I full know that evidence is more reliable than the perception of what happened to the shooter, operator, etc.
The bullet that was extracted from the barrel was not felt by the owner and the 1st he knew about it was when it fell out of the breach upon running the cleaning rod through.
The bullet has no marks to either end to indicate even the cleaning rod. I have roded bullets and they are noticeable to the point a hammer is generally needed. This bullet has rifling groves and the lube groves are gone.
I still have to think that a hang fire could present all the evidence i see but the owner says that it just blew with the pull of the trigger. I am going to interview his 2 children also.
I showed what was left of the cartridge to my drugest, he is a collector and shooter and he told me about a similar situation he had back in the 70's when shooting one of those little Browning auto's with Winchester ammo. When the rifle KaBoomed on him it left the case head embedded in his fore arm. He found out shortly after that Winchester had a recall on that lot of rimfire ammo and he made the call. A rep came to his house (300 miles north of Minneapolis) and took the ammo and rifle. The rifle was replaced by Winchester and he heard no more on this.
All I can say at this point is I do not have ANY answer's.
Dr. S posted;
That has come to mind, but I see what I believe to be a firing pin mark on the case head. But HEY, you may be spot on here. The mark may be from striking the chamber or bolt before or after?
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Other .22 blow ups
I had a brand new Stinger .22 round blow out the rim while a friend was shooting a mag full in my TP .22. Blew the mag out and scared the H&#@)* out of him. Didn't hurt him or the gun it turned out, his hand was stinging. Think I still have that round in the safe some place, have to dig it out and see if I can get a picture on line. I have no idea why it did that, powder blew a hole in the rim which then ripped around the cartridge base while in the chamber. I think the round did not eject but was stove piped by the slide. The next round up below the Cboom round was damaged as well but did not detonate. The other rounds from the same box worked fine and I have never had it happen again, so far...
I had a brand new Stinger .22 round blow out the rim while a friend was shooting a mag full in my TP .22. Blew the mag out and scared the H&#@)* out of him. Didn't hurt him or the gun it turned out, his hand was stinging. Think I still have that round in the safe some place, have to dig it out and see if I can get a picture on line. I have no idea why it did that, powder blew a hole in the rim which then ripped around the cartridge base while in the chamber. I think the round did not eject but was stove piped by the slide. The next round up below the Cboom round was damaged as well but did not detonate. The other rounds from the same box worked fine and I have never had it happen again, so far...
I just had a case separate on a round of Winchester T22 Target today. The report was actually quieter than normal--I suspect this was partially becuase a good amount of the combustion gases escaped slowly through the gas ports in the side of the receiver.
I was shooting these out of a CZ 452 LUX. With these cartridges, I have had about 3 cartridges fail to fire as well as this separation. I am going to call Olin this week and discuss this with them.
I was shooting these out of a CZ 452 LUX. With these cartridges, I have had about 3 cartridges fail to fire as well as this separation. I am going to call Olin this week and discuss this with them.
Can you post some pic's of the case before you send it off. Once they have it nobody will ever see them again. But do send them! 
And thanks for your posting.
With hunting, I have not been able to get my hands on the 10-22, but I don't think there will be any change.
I am going with the good Dr. on this.
And thanks for your posting.
With hunting, I have not been able to get my hands on the 10-22, but I don't think there will be any change.
I am going with the good Dr. on this.
Dr. Strangelove
New member
Gbro said:
I wouldn't swear to it, it's only happened a handful of times over the years, but it seems, thinking about it, (in the 10/22, anyway) that that cartridge doesn't come out of the magazine correctly, then doesn't engage the bolt face correctly, the cartridge rim fails to get under the ejector properly, causing it to cant enough where the bolt face slams the cartridge up against the breech face, firing the priming mixture as the bolt face hits the canted cartridge head.
Another answer would be a really dirty bolt that allowed the firing pin to stick in the forward position.
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I had something very similar to this happen a couple decades ago. However, the bullet did go down range, and IIRC hit the target. There was no increased report or other indication anything was wrong, except the rifle was jammed.
Ruger 10/22, and I only knew there was something wrong when the rifle jammed, from feeding the next round into the case of the fired one. There was a perfect little circle of brass marked U (Rem) that fell out of the action.
The rifle extractor had gone away, and being in the field, I never did find it. Clyinder of brass stuck on the nose of the next round came right out as well.
Rifle may have fired out of battery, or the round may have slamfired, either way it was no big deal which. Replaced the extractor and have not had it happen since.
Ruger 10/22, and I only knew there was something wrong when the rifle jammed, from feeding the next round into the case of the fired one. There was a perfect little circle of brass marked U (Rem) that fell out of the action.
The rifle extractor had gone away, and being in the field, I never did find it. Clyinder of brass stuck on the nose of the next round came right out as well.
Rifle may have fired out of battery, or the round may have slamfired, either way it was no big deal which. Replaced the extractor and have not had it happen since.
Scott-Rose
Inactive
How common is this?
Wow guys, had the same thing happen to me yesterday. I have had my 10/22 for 20 years now, and bought it used as well. Other than an occasional dud, it has been rock solid. after a 4 -5 year break I got back into shooting again, but things seem to be different with the ammo. I bought a brick of remington and I was lucky if I could empty a clip without a dud, or two, or three. She is clean, and she didnt used to fire that way. I am starting to think that this may be more ammo related than we think.
It was a first, but I had a loud boom, sprayed in the face, and when I looked at it the extractor and plunger where missing. The rim had sepperated from the case, and the case is still in the chamber. Waiting for new parts before I go into that.
The bummer this time, was it was my sixth round, and I had to drive 30 miles to get there.
Wow guys, had the same thing happen to me yesterday. I have had my 10/22 for 20 years now, and bought it used as well. Other than an occasional dud, it has been rock solid. after a 4 -5 year break I got back into shooting again, but things seem to be different with the ammo. I bought a brick of remington and I was lucky if I could empty a clip without a dud, or two, or three. She is clean, and she didnt used to fire that way. I am starting to think that this may be more ammo related than we think.
It was a first, but I had a loud boom, sprayed in the face, and when I looked at it the extractor and plunger where missing. The rim had sepperated from the case, and the case is still in the chamber. Waiting for new parts before I go into that.
The bummer this time, was it was my sixth round, and I had to drive 30 miles to get there.
Dr. Strangelove
New member
Remington bulk .22LR ammo has been crap for a few years now, in my opinion. I have the same issue with misfires, but only with Remington.
I won't buy it anymore.
If you say there was a firing pin strike on the head then it was a out of battery firing ! Broken firing pin , or firing pin spring or dirt preventing firing pin from returning ! I used to have a case from a High Standard pistol that had what looked like a double rim , really weird. The pressure expanded the case but didn't rupture it. The pistol was well used with a great number of rounds through it .The firing pin broke and the front section jammed in the forward position.
This is a good time to mention an often forgotten thing - occasionally remove firing pin and spring , clean them and the hole , lightly lube .
This is a good time to mention an often forgotten thing - occasionally remove firing pin and spring , clean them and the hole , lightly lube .
Scott-Rose
Inactive
Reply
Hey Guys, Thanks for the reply. The Ammo was the bulk 525 count. Bought it at Big5. Unfortunatly I did not think to keep, or inspect the rim, but the casing is still in the chamber. I have new parts on order. When I get them, I will tear it down and post some pics. When I first started having a lite strike issue creating duds, I replaced the firing pin, and cleaned and oiled everything. That was about 300 rounds ago. The lite strike problem went away, but the duds are probably 1 in 15 an the average. I have some theories now, but I dont want to tear it down until I have replacement parts. I bought everything ruger offers, so this should be close to new.
Keep you posted.
Hey Guys, Thanks for the reply. The Ammo was the bulk 525 count. Bought it at Big5. Unfortunatly I did not think to keep, or inspect the rim, but the casing is still in the chamber. I have new parts on order. When I get them, I will tear it down and post some pics. When I first started having a lite strike issue creating duds, I replaced the firing pin, and cleaned and oiled everything. That was about 300 rounds ago. The lite strike problem went away, but the duds are probably 1 in 15 an the average. I have some theories now, but I dont want to tear it down until I have replacement parts. I bought everything ruger offers, so this should be close to new.
Keep you posted.
It's 22 rimfire.
That does'nt really surprised me if there is a failure to feed and the gun is being used rapid fire.
22's can start to get unreliable if they are fired alot and get dirty just in a half an hour of steady beating the gun to death.
Slide closes on a half chambered round and blam.
Now,if this had happened with a centerfire,I would be concerned.
That does'nt really surprised me if there is a failure to feed and the gun is being used rapid fire.
22's can start to get unreliable if they are fired alot and get dirty just in a half an hour of steady beating the gun to death.
Slide closes on a half chambered round and blam.
Now,if this had happened with a centerfire,I would be concerned.