22 Mag vs 38 special
- Thread starter Mlee
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Adventurer 2
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The Massad Ayoob article is very convincing - Convinced me to buy a 351 PD (22 Magnum).
I remember the first time I shot it - it was loud, had some recoil, and I thought yeah - the ultimate, lightweight, always have, CCW. In the last year I bought a chronograph - guess what? - the 22 WMR out of that 1 7/8" barrel almost exactly matches the velocities of my 5 1/2 inch Ruger Mark III (22 LR).
I was dissapointed - my preference is not to carry a 22 LR for self defense. I hunt a lot of small game with a 22 LR and I believe that's about what the 22 LR is good for. For larger animals, given a choice, I would 100 percent of the time carry a larger caliber.
I remember the first time I shot it - it was loud, had some recoil, and I thought yeah - the ultimate, lightweight, always have, CCW. In the last year I bought a chronograph - guess what? - the 22 WMR out of that 1 7/8" barrel almost exactly matches the velocities of my 5 1/2 inch Ruger Mark III (22 LR).
I was dissapointed - my preference is not to carry a 22 LR for self defense. I hunt a lot of small game with a 22 LR and I believe that's about what the 22 LR is good for. For larger animals, given a choice, I would 100 percent of the time carry a larger caliber.
I would say Massad would say that a .22 was good enough.
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/ayoob62.html
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/ayoob62.html
Owweee my ears,....... Say what ?........ I can't hear a thing
When fired from a 2" barrel a .38 spl has about 2x the energy of a 22 mag , a 158gr SWC penetrates about 16" of ballistic jello, and with its smaller diameter the 22mag may come close to it ? Didn't someone here do a bunch of gel tests ?
OK I'm going from memory, I recall a 40gr 22 mag bullet doing around 1050fps from a 2" barrel and penetrating 12" of ballistic gelatin. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Go with the .38Spl.
I own them both. .22Mag High Standard derringer and S&W "Chief's Special". I'll take the .38Spl+P any day. The .22Mag was really meant for a rifle, and makes a tremendous muzzle-blast out of a short-barrel handgun. The .38 was meant for a handgun, and is far better, IMHO. Unless you're using a rifle, the .22Mag really isn't good for s***.
I own them both. .22Mag High Standard derringer and S&W "Chief's Special". I'll take the .38Spl+P any day. The .22Mag was really meant for a rifle, and makes a tremendous muzzle-blast out of a short-barrel handgun. The .38 was meant for a handgun, and is far better, IMHO. Unless you're using a rifle, the .22Mag really isn't good for s***.
No, the recoil isn't bad at all. My model 60 (same as the M36 but in stainless) weighs 19oz. I had a M66 snubby, but that was too much for me. I sold it to a young friend who is a US Army officer (Capt.), currently on his second deployment to Iraq. He's far stronger than me, and enjoys it.
The accuracy out of the 2" snubby amazes me. We took it to my brother's police range, and I was able to hit a steel silhouette target five shots out of five at 70yds. Just amazing. Maybe I just got lucky, but it's more accurate than it has any right to be.
Even if you get the .357Mag version, stick with .38Spl+P. That's what everyone I know uses in a J-frame.
Hope this helps, and Happy Thanksgiving.
--Skeeter
Accuracy out of a snub can be quite good
The .22 is just not versatile or powerful enough to be a serious defensive contender.
The .38s are actually easier to shoot well than a compact 9mm. They have better sights, actions and fixed barrels, adding to consistant accuracy. The .38 out of a quality snub like a 686 or 60 or SP101 in 2.2-3" is quite impressive, giving better groups than my 9 at both short and long-ranges. Plus you can use any bullet/powder combination you choose, making them very versatile. Check out a great snubby resource here http://www.snubtraining.com/coursesMastering.php
The .22 is just not versatile or powerful enough to be a serious defensive contender.
Don't let the Bill Jordan worship get out of hand. He was an accomplished writer and apparently a quick draw, but the only shooting he was ever involved in was an accidental discharge where he killed the agent in the next office. He didn't tell that story much.
Any theory he had about 22 mag, 38 or 357 is just that, a theory no different than yours or mine.
Any theory he had about 22 mag, 38 or 357 is just that, a theory no different than yours or mine.
22 mag and 22's
I have to disagree with this statement. As always, just my opinion. there was also another name in the article I posted. It is Massad Ayoob. Guess we shouldn't take him seriously either. I certainly would NOT want to be shot with a 22 or 22mag. They sure do like to bounce around the inerds after hitting bone. Again just my opinion
Stevie-Ray
New member
Oooh! I handled a S&W Airweight something-or-other in .32 H&R mag at the last gun show. If I hadn't been buying my G29 at that time, I think it would have followed me home. As it is, I might be looking for it the next time; it was beautiful. And only 400 bucks. Just could be my second revolver.
kevinarmstrong
New member
My wife hates shooting my 38 specials. She is very sensitive to recoil. It's enough to make her not want to practice. She doesn't even like my super-light cowboy action loads from a heavy .357. They feel like a .22 to me. But her perception is everything. I will only buy what she would feel comfortable practicing with.
If all a person can handle is a .22 Mag, then get one
They certainly can be used for defense, but I think there are many better choices out there that have low recoil. If the .22 is as much as she can handle, than that is obviously the best choice-better to hit with a .22 than miss with a .38, but I don't think too many people would have a problem with .38 target loads, for example.
Funon1
They certainly can be used for defense, but I think there are many better choices out there that have low recoil. If the .22 is as much as she can handle, than that is obviously the best choice-better to hit with a .22 than miss with a .38, but I don't think too many people would have a problem with .38 target loads, for example.
Funon1
Adventurer 2
New member
Been on vacation - wanted to post the comparable velocities between a snub 22 mag and a 22 LR Semi-Auto. The S&W 351 PD has a 1 7/8 inch barrel. The Ruger Mark III has a 5 1/2 inch bull barrel:
351 PD
50 Grain Federal Game-Shok 850 FPS
40 Grain CCI Maxi-Mag HV TMJ 964 FPS
34 Grain Winchester Supreme HP 1135 FPS
30 Grain CCI Maxi-Mag HP+V 1214 FPS
30 Grain CCI Maxi-Mag TNT 1162 FPS
Mark III
36 Grain Federal HP 1052 FPS
36 Grain Remington Golden HP 1029 FPS
36 Grain CCI HP Mini Mag 1068 FPS
32 Grain CCI Stinger 1290 FPS
351 PD
50 Grain Federal Game-Shok 850 FPS
40 Grain CCI Maxi-Mag HV TMJ 964 FPS
34 Grain Winchester Supreme HP 1135 FPS
30 Grain CCI Maxi-Mag HP+V 1214 FPS
30 Grain CCI Maxi-Mag TNT 1162 FPS
Mark III
36 Grain Federal HP 1052 FPS
36 Grain Remington Golden HP 1029 FPS
36 Grain CCI HP Mini Mag 1068 FPS
32 Grain CCI Stinger 1290 FPS
Adventurer 2
New member
I would take the 38 snub over either of the 22s.
I just stumbled across this thread and I thought I would reignite the flame war. I am a 20 year LEO. One of my favorite carry guns is a light weight, J frame size revolver, but they all recoil horrifically with any +P loads. I recently purchased a Ruger LCR (and sold my S&W 340) since the LCR appreciably diminishes perceived recoil, though it is still rather stout.
I have also become convinced of the effectiveness of a 22WMR in a J frame size revolver for self defense purposes. The 22 WMR has near zero recoil which allows for quicker follow up shots. Additionally the the gun (S&W 351PD) carries seven rounds, as opposed to five.
One of the things I most like about the 351PD is that it allows the use of a a "lip grip", seen here.
http://www.collinscraftgrips.com/pi...ip=S&W+J+frame+round+butt+Lip+Grip+Dymondwood
Attempting to use a grip this small on any 38 is not only painful, but I have to readjust my hand after each round resulting in slow follow up shots.
Another benefit to the 22WMR is relatively less expensive ammo, and the ability to carry alot more of it...should that become necessary. To round out my "Bug Out" kit, I plan to buy one of these take down 22 Magnum rifles when they become available later this year:
http://www.majesticarms.com/id3.html
I have no doubt that a .38 would be more effective, but I also feel that a 22WMR is effective enough. No one wants to get shot! And I think there are some positive advantages to 7 rounds of 22WMR as opposed to five rounds of .38 +P. I feel well armed with either.
I have also become convinced of the effectiveness of a 22WMR in a J frame size revolver for self defense purposes. The 22 WMR has near zero recoil which allows for quicker follow up shots. Additionally the the gun (S&W 351PD) carries seven rounds, as opposed to five.
One of the things I most like about the 351PD is that it allows the use of a a "lip grip", seen here.
http://www.collinscraftgrips.com/pi...ip=S&W+J+frame+round+butt+Lip+Grip+Dymondwood
Attempting to use a grip this small on any 38 is not only painful, but I have to readjust my hand after each round resulting in slow follow up shots.
Another benefit to the 22WMR is relatively less expensive ammo, and the ability to carry alot more of it...should that become necessary. To round out my "Bug Out" kit, I plan to buy one of these take down 22 Magnum rifles when they become available later this year:
http://www.majesticarms.com/id3.html
I have no doubt that a .38 would be more effective, but I also feel that a 22WMR is effective enough. No one wants to get shot! And I think there are some positive advantages to 7 rounds of 22WMR as opposed to five rounds of .38 +P. I feel well armed with either.