22-250 Stopping Power...

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Idashot1k

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Ok. Bear with me. I know this is a touchy subject. I have a 22-250 in my arsenal and got to thinking...
What is the ballistic reasoning behind --- not using--- this caliber for large game such as deer or elk?

As I understand it, Penetration is the problem. The Slo-Mo ballistic evidences I've seen show that many .224 bullets at these velocities explode within a few inches of entering. . .

The debate among other calibers is often how well a bullet expands, ie how a .284 might mushroom to .320 or some-odd diameter and cut a large exit hole.

If I combine the premises, a 22-250 gives an imbalance, with explosive damage and little penetration.

Shouldn't this mean that if a slightly more sturdy bullet is used (maybe a 70gr speer) and shot through the shoulder we'd have penetration and sturnum soup?

Or what if i get an explosive bullet (55gr vmax) and take a neck shot? The bullet enters and quickly blows into pieces that shoot for a good 10 inches, effectively utilizing the positioning of major arteries and hydro-static shock... This is how a friend of mine took a buck mulie with his 223 Remington.

Ok, you get the picture. We've all heard the stories of successful, and unsuccessful .224 hunts. I even read on a forum somewhere of a hunter sniping an antelope at 700 yards :eek:

I am NOT suggesting this be done. AT ALL. I am really interested in a discussion that involves only real scientific evidences and perhaps personal experience. I know many people call this inhumane, and some do not. It seems that placement and bullet construction is key.

Thank you for your time and comments :)
 
a 70gr bullet from a 223 can have over 1000ft/lbs of energy out to 200-250 yards, and not much under 1000 at 300 yards.

Since 22-250 will have a faster velocity it will have more energy, at 1000ft/lbs is usually whats considered necessary for deer.

So yes in theory it should be ok provided you don't flunk on shot placement, but in practice it's still not the best round available.

Trouble is most 22-250s will only shoot light bullets which generally are very explosive on impact and lack penetration for large game.
That said I shot a few goats with a 55gr soft point in 223 and it did an excellent job of destroying the internals of one goat and ruined half of another and broke its spine.
Provided elk and some deer are much much larger than a goat, but most people wouldn't even use a 243 or 7mm08 on elk.
 
What is the ballistic reasoning behind --- not using--- this caliber for large game such as deer or elk?
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I would surmise that the reasons are linked to 2 things. First older bullet construction for this caliber was intended for coyote and smaller. Designed to disintegrate on impact. For that to happen you need extreme velocity. To get extremely fast bullets they must be light for caliber.
The light for caliber bullets cause the second reason the 22-250 is ballistically not suited for big game. The rifles were designed fir light bullets and most do not have a twist rate that will stabilize heavy for caliber bullets.

Terminal performance of newer bullet designs allows good penetration on deer sized game. Elk need 2x the penetration needed for deer, for reliable, one shot, humane kills.
 
The reasons you don't see 22-250s used for deer are 3 fold.

1)As mentioned, typical and traditional bullet designs simply aren't made for it. It would be entirely adequate with proper bullet selection. The Barnes T/TSX line is made for this reason. They don't make those bullets figuring you're going to shoot ground squirrels with expanding solids.

2)Most folks that have a 250 have it set up for varmint hunting. The gun itself might be heavier than average and probably wears a barrel that might not stabilize appropriate bullets. It probably wears a heavy, high powered, variable power, variable parallax scope and a heavy bipod. Most folks just aren't going to mess with it for deer hunting when they have a more suitably set up option. (or an excuse to buy another gun.;))

3)A great many folks, possibly largely the "Internet Generation", have a terrible, infectious disease known as Magnumitis. This disease causes it's sufferer to believe that no cartridge that lacks the word "Magnum" in it's name can possibly be used to kill anything larger than a slightly heavy set squirrel. Take this comment as an example:

but most people wouldn't even use a 243 or 7mm08 on elk.
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Plenty of folks hunt elk regularly and on purpose with the venerable .243Win and the 7mm-08 is just about the perfect elk round for the average hunter... but not on the internet. If only they'd been named the .243 Winchester Super Mag and the 7mm-08 Magnum, they'd be great elk guns. Alas, poor naming doomed them to squirrels and foxes, maybe small, weak coyote:rolleyes:.

The same fate falls on the 22-250. Lacking the necessary "Magnum" in it's name, it is relegated to angry mice and maybe a crow, if it isn't too far away.
 
Imo a 22-250 is fine for deer,dont think id try elk.I've used 55 gr. bullets & 60 GR. But my gun wont shoot the heavy stuff at all because of the 1in14 twist barrel.IT would take Elk i'm sure someone has done it But it was'nt me.
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It seems that placement and bullet construction is key.
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Couple that statement with good judgement and I would not have a problem with someone hunting deer or elk with a 22-250. The problem is, in the heat of the moment, to many people have bad judgement and it's the animal that ends up suffering for it.
 
70 gr Speer cooks deer

My daughter and I together have killed several deer using the 70 gr speer 3 deer using that bullet out of a savage 340 in 222 all one shot quick kills and three or four same bullet launched from a 22-250 no deer have been lost wounded buy the round. I like it when I hear people say those one shot kills with 22 centerfires were only because they were fired by an expert shooter well the three shot with the 222 were buy a ten and eleven year old girl. the bullet penetrates well and holds together but is not a accuracy champ but accurate enough for hundred yard deer gun.
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As others have said, a Barnes tsx or a 60 gr nosler partition will do a fine job on deer. A good inexpensive rifle that will stabilize these bullets well is the Ruger American in .22-250. It has a 1:10 twist.
 
in my state the 22-250 is legal for deer but not for elk.


I would not be my preference if I owned one regardless....
 
The R&D in bullet design, these recent dozen to fifteen years, have increased the hunting utility of the .22 centerfires.

Such factors as judgement in bullet selection and consideration of twist rates are very important, of course.

And there are still limitations as to ethical kill capability.
 
Once when bad weather forced me to pull my canoe into an abandoned Inuit camp on the western shore of the Hudson Bay, I found several 22-250 empty cases. This was deep in the heart of polar bear country. Sometimes under necessity you can make a cartridge do things it was never intended for.
 
If you want to make a 22-250 into an "all around gun" the best way I know to get closer is to shoot Barnes X bullets through it. You'll be spending a LOT of money on them and you'll be cleaning your bore often, but that's the reality you'll just have to accept.

Don't try for top velocity but only go for accuracy. In most cases you'll still get over 3400 FPS and many times up to about 3600 FPS so don't worry that it's not "fast enough." They work well on deer.

I would personally draw the line at deer however and would not use a 22-250 on elk.

I have hunted elk and guided elk hunters for about 39 years now, and I am sure you can kill elk with one, if you can place your shots right. I knew a man in Kooski Idaho years ago that poached a lot of elk with a 22 WMR so a 22-250 is sure to do the job, but he was a poacher and was shooting them over bait (a set of salt and mineral blocks and some “goodies” of a garden) and would shoot them in the brain from a blind.

When we hunt legitimately, elk are very often taken at angles that you need a lot of penetration from, and even a Barnes X 22 bullet will not give the required penetration and cavitation you'd need for some of those kinds of shots.

You can sure kill elk with a 22-250, but it's more a stunt than anything else, and we should have more respect of the game than that.

If you want to do it, go ahead only if you are 100% willing to turn down EVERY shot that you can't be 100% sure will drop the animal instantly. When you think of elk hunting as a rule, how many hunters using a 338 can be 100% sure of that?

Even them which shoot the big magnums can watch their elk run a bit before they fall. That's with good penetration and excellent cavatation.

So let's be honest. If we got 65% of the penetration of a 338 and 20% of the cavitations, how good would your results be on shots that didn't hit the heart, or the spine or brain? The elk will die, but how soon?
Will you be sure that you'll bring him home, or would you go shoot another one?
And maybe a 3rd one?
I'd advise you not to do this unless you will turn down about 80% of the shots you could take with even a 270 Winchester.

But for deer with the right bullets you'll be ok.
 
I've never understood this fascination with and even demand for "drop right there".

Yeah, it happens, but it does not need to happen and doesn't happen most of the time with the shots that most hunters take, which is double-lung.

I've long since lost count of how many deer I've helped drag out of the woods. Close to 200, for sure, with 50 or better being my own. These are deer that have been shot from between 10 feet and 200 yards, with guns ranging from .243Win up to 12ga shotguns.

The number that were "DRT" is a small percentage. Certainly single digits.

Animals with holes in both lungs can not breathe and they bleed, typically A LOT. They won't go more than 150 yards or so, on the extreme.

I'm not saying this because I think the 22-250 is a good elk gun (it's not) but because I don't understand the apparent Standard of Performance being whether or not the animal is DRT. That just doesn't make sense to me.
 
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The only thing worse than magnumitis is anti magnummitis.

Current craze is everybody wanting to make something marginal work for something it was never designed for.

22-250 with proper bullets is fine for deer.

But, for elk it would require perfect shots that only hunters on forums ever seem quite able to do.
 
I am not a fan of the DRT train of thought, but it has it's place. When I have a deer a couple feet from a deep ravine or on my side of a river, DRT can be downright handy. I do use .22 centerfires to hunt deer at times, but have never tried a shoulder shot with one. I really would not feel comfortable trying a shoulder shot with a .22 centerfire. I may be wrong on that, but that is my opinion. I generally buy factory loaded varmit bullets and don't take long shots. I have never had one go as far as any I shot with a 30-30 in the heart/lung area.
 
ZeroJunk said:
The only thing worse than magnumitis is anti magnummitis.

Current craze is everybody wanting to make something marginal work for something it was never designed for.

22-250 with proper bullets is fine for deer.

But, for elk it would require perfect shots that only hunters on forums ever seem quite able to do.
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Not a single person in this thread has said that the 22-250 is a good elk gun.

As for Anti-magnumitis, color me guilty. I'd rather have a hunter with a .243 and know that they're well-practiced, confident and extremely familiar with it, enough that they "own" the gun than have them carrying a 7mm Wonder Mag or a 338 something or other that they hate, only shoot to "sight-in" and flinch like they're getting hit by lightning.

A .243 through both lungs beats a .338 blowing off the leg or blowing a hole in the intenstines, every single day and twice on Sunday. On the flip side, nothing beats a hole through both lungs. The animal isn't going to be "more dead" becuase it's lungs have a 1/2" hole instead of a 3/8" hole. Dead is dead. Shot placement matters. Penetration is second. Light calibers with modern bullets are great at both.
 
My problem with the whole throwing lead all over the place with magnums is that I have never seen it. Seem to read about it a lot. Gets regurgitated daily.
Maybe I live in a different world than the guys that just decide one day they are going to take up hunting. I never met a man that couldn't figure out what he was comfortable using in few shots and go from there.
A magnum is something better to work up to than down from. I'll give you that.
But, I'm not going to slander anybody who uses one and suggest they have some disease.
 
You're putting words in my mouth.

I never said anybody shouldn't use one or even suggested that someone who DOES use one has Magnumitis. Magnumitis is the idea that ONLY a magnum is sufficient and "lesser" guns are immoral or at the very least woefully inadequate.

I do, however, believe that far more folks have an issue with high-recoil guns than will admit it. I know it's true. I've watched it countless times. Not all, maybe not even most, but certainly alot.

I also never said anything about "slinging lead all over the place". What happens is an "unexplainable" bad shot. Maybe it's just a low lung shot when they aimed for the middle. Maybe it's a complete miss. Maybe a gut shot. Yeah, it happens to all of us sooner or later but it happens more when you hate and are afraid of your gun.
 
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