22-250 for coyotes or 243 win

R

Rogerbeep

Inactive
I've owned and used a 17 Remington, since '03 or '04 and its been a good varmint rifle so far but it just don't have the muscle like other cartridges we've come to understand rule the roost in the coyote department, particularly the 22-250, or 243 We all know at this point that anything bigger would qualify simply because their bigger, but what I want to discuss are the 22-250 and 243 win

I have experience with the 223 and I can say the 223 has put the hurt to every coyote I shot with it and only one runner after I got rid of that rifle due to sticky rough chambering. I then bought A CZ 527 in .17 rem and been using it every fur season since and can say its a love hate relationship. I can also say it lives up to being a low pelt damage rifle especially using Hornady's 25 gr bullet. I've also used 30gr Bergers with very good results although they will leave a bit bigger hole in the pelt and sometimes a complete pass through about the same size, but their usually dead right there or don't run very far usually no more than ten yrds or so .... not too far form where they been originally standing or running when they got hit. I'll admit its a shot placement rifle and limited to inside 400 yrds probably could kill out to 500 yards, and this year tried a really long shot at 600yrds on a runner. Yes I know that's pushing it, but I connected with it as the k9 went down from a shoulder hit as much as I could tell and no sooner did it hit the snow covered turf it got back up and continued at half throttle to a ravine leading to a marsh no sign of the critter.

And thats where I draw the line and now have decided I need something bigger that will kill consistently even if the shot isn't in the boiler room and do it at long distance as well. I'm willing to sew I and don't care of damage as long as its not too gawd aweful I'm just tired runners at long ranges and bullets going all squirrely with winds above 20mph. I'm willing to do only head shots at close range to compensate for the unfriendly fur cartridges and don't really care as far as fur damage is concerned what happens at long ranges. I'm confident they will do better than a 30 gr will do... no doubt, but I don't reckon I've ever seen their performance on coyotes first hand. What's your take on 22-250 and 243 damage and lethality at longer shots?

I see rifle twist rate for the 22-250 are 1 in 14 and 1 in 12 and probably others but these are the standard and I'm interested in the 12 twist because it allows you to shoot the heavier bullets, but would I be cutting my throat not going to the 14 twist for the light weights.... what's the pros and cons for the 250?.... As for the 243 not too concerned about bullet weight, since with its standard twist or otherwise its common sense it'll get the job done. What's the skinny on the 22-250's performance on coyotes using heavier bullets above 55gr? do they tear fur up really bad or punch on through like a shank through paper? From all the vids I've watched it looks like the 22-250 is pretty harsh on coyotes. but how harsh is the question.
 
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Here's what I experienced 40 years ago. I had a decent 30/06 but it just wasn't working as a coyote rifle(shy on accuracy and range and it was kicking me silly). Dad bought a used Rem 788 in 243 and things took a big turn for the better. Less recoil and flatter trajectory improved my hit average considerably so I bought a new 700 in 243. I used it for everything for years but found it , too had it's limitations. Accuracy was OK but velocity and trajectory was giving me fits on running yoties-lots of hits back and low-and I just couldn't correct enough. Enter the 22/250-instantly more one shot kills at variable range and more solid body hits on running shots. No looking back, the 22/250 was the king of the board when it came to knocking off yoties.
I don't shoot the 22/250 much these days since we no longer run coyotes with hounds. The .223 AR is sufficient for calling coyotes and the .308 handles the fixed range but windy bait pile shots better.
 
I know what you are saying about good hit's and the coyotes getting up to run off.
I experienced the same thing shooting factory loaded 223 45gr JHP Winchester ammo.
I don't feel the caliber or velocity was the problem, it was more a bullet construction problem.

I started hand-loading 55gr Sierra Game King hollow point bullets for my 223 running 3300fps and the problem went away, I hear the smack and there lays a dead coyote.

I have three calibers I use for coyote hunting, my 223 with 55 gr Game Kings at 3300 fps, my 22-250 using 50gr Sierra soft points at 3812 fps and a heavy barrel 243 using Nosler 95gr Ballistic Tips at 3100fps.

I figure my 223 and 22-250 to be close to mid range guns and limit my shots at coyotes to 400 yards or less on calm days anything past 400 yards the 243 steps up and does the job.

To put things in perspective as for wind drift, at 400 yards with a 10 mph full value wind my 223 bullet will drift 29.8 inches, at 400 yards with a 10 mph full value wind my 243 bullet will drift 13.7 inches.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
 
I only know from reading posts at a varmint hunting website, but some said that 55-grain .243 bullets don't exit and thus don't tear up the hide.

If I wanted the hides, I'd either go with a .223 and heavier bullets and keep the range down on the shotls; no Ma Bell efforts. Or, a heavy bullet in .30 that maybe wouldn't expand in a coyote.

Otherwise? A .243 would deal with the wind better at long distance. The Sierra 85-grain HPBT is very accurate, although at close range it's a blow-up bullet.
 
You have the right ideas in terms of fur damage. Fur damage is a moot point if the yotie runs off and is lost. When we were running them with hounds, most any hit resulted in a coyote in the pickup. I shot quite a few with a 22 WRM since I was usually pretty close to the race. I was selling coyote pelts to buy groceries so I took most any shot from boot toes to 1/4 mile with the 22/250. Had some damage but even those would buy a bag of groceries(back then anyway). Hornady 53 grain match bullets seemed about as "fur friendly" as anything available at that time. Apparently, they blew up almost immediately and didn't exit a body hit. Leg hits often resulted in traumatic amputation and a quick finish.
In the 243, my choice was the Sierra 70 grain BTHP. It shot well in my rifle and gave decent performance on coyotes. I still have a few of those loads from 1975 and shot a decent group with them last year. A relative used some of the .243 58 grain "tipped" ammo(Blackhills) on groundhogs last summer. From his reports, I'm not sure it's all that "fur friendly". Something about "intact on the close side and all gone on the far side" of the groundhogs he hit.
 
Between the two choices, I'd go with a 22-250, the twist rate doesn't matter between 1:14 and 1:12 as both are fine for 55gr bullets and under.

But I'd prefer a 223 Rem pushing 52 or 53gr match bullets fast. They'll do the job with cheaper brass and less powder.

Jimro
 
Between those two on Wiley, there's not enough difference to matter.
Fur damage is a moot point if the right bullet is used. A Speer 90 grain FMJ makes a puncture hole out of a .243.
 
Just watched a vid on the tube a guy that goes by 'Dartman and the Neighbor he's using everything from 338 Lapua to 243 and shots were from 400 to 1000yrds in particular the 243 was a killin machine I don't know what bullets he used, but every time he connected it was lights out for most it seemed and if there were a runner it was on its death run.... for sure...

Mobuck

your right fur damage is a moot point if mr. yotie does run off and is able lick his wounds, but my point is that when you step it up in size from 22-250 to 243 the long range hits would be more effective at those extremes from the 243 than say a smaller lighter bullets do that run out of steam at those ranges, however does performance of these heavier bullets at extreme ranges ware off, but still minimize a run offs with the extra feet lbs and thus leaving an pelt worth being sewed with thread?

My only question is what kind of damage could one expect from a 243 at extreme range (beyond 400yrds) compared to what a 22-250 would do and if I decided to go with 22-250 in a 12 twist and using heavier bullets? knowing that I could take advantage of the energy retained for the heavier bullets for that cartridge, or would I be better off with just going 243 for long range work as both these cartridges have a reputation for tearing some pretty big holes when shots are close. I need a perspective on long shots with bigger bullets from these two rounds, If that makes sense. Been shooting most coyotes with a .17 remy and I have to just tune it out of my mind right now because it just doesn't have much left after it gets out there.

Since I started this thread I been leaning toward the 243 I Did a little looking around and been getting the idea that as far as long range is concerned the 243 is the bigger hammer. And if I ever wanted to go full steam I could always 'Ackley Improve it.
 
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No help from me-Sorry- I have always been in the 223 group. Either 60 gn V Max or 75 gn A max. Drops them where they stand everytime.
 
If it's just coyotes, the 22-250 is a good choice. But, if pigs are part of the equation, get the 243 or 243AI. I have a 220, but finally had to park it and go to the 260 when the pigs moved in. I'd have gone to a 243 if I had one, but the 260 does a great job.
 
I used to shoot fur to earn a large chunk of my living several years ago
I used a 22-250 but after loosing value on some hides for a few years I went to a Sako 222 Remington. Contrary to the "wisdom" written by so many "experts" (that didn't shoot for a living,) the 222 is NOT just a 250 yard gun. I killed more coyotes at 300-500 yards than I can count with it. And the 222 Rem with a 50 grain bullet didn't do much hide damage.

I no longer shoot for money, but if I did today the rifle I would use is my 16" AR-15 with a 1-8 twist and shoot 69 gr Sierra match kings for longer shots. I have killed a few coyotes with it and they are deadly but do not damage the hide much at all.

For general purpose I'd use the same rifle loaded with the same 50 grain bullet I used in my 222. A 22" barreled 222 and a 16" barreled 223 are very close to identical in performance. And my AR is shockingly accurate. In fact I have to admit that for a 5 shot group the Sako 222 and the AR (my own build) both shoot about the same at 100 and 200 yards in trajectory and in accuracy. I have shot many many groups with the AR under 3/4" at 100. So it leaves nothing to be desired as a hide hunters rifle.
 
I shoot coyotes for predator control and give the corpses to a neighbor who sells the skins. Here in Maine, our dogs are bigger than Western yotes and given the distances I've shot them, my go-to rifle is a .243 Win, Tikka Lite. I use a monopod for support on longer shots.

When walking to several fields and like to carry the Tikka for comfort, but also have a Rem 700, .223 Rem, Stainless Light Varmint Fluted that works pretty well, especially under 250 yards. All my hunting rifles sport the Leupold VX2.

My handloads in the .243 include: Hornady GMX, Sierra 90 grain Game King and 85 grain HPBT. Bullets under 85 grains don't seem to buck the wind at longer ranges as well as the heavier ones. I don't use 100 grain bullets for yotes.
 
I used to hunt coyotes for the bounty/fur. I sold them whole to a local taxidermist and in some cases for landowners who let me hunt their land. I still hunt Coyotes, but not as much. With the boys getting older, i see more in the future.

I have a .22-250 that does not get a lot of use. After a few years I kind of fell back to the .223 as being easier, cheaper and just as effective. I have .243s as well, and they do outperform the .22s out past say 400 yards or so. I have shot at least 50 coyotes from 500 to 800 with the .243 with no worries.

Most of the time now, I just use the Mossberg MVP in .223 with a suppressor on it, but one of the .243s goes along and there are times I take it into a blind or set up with it over a large valley and it brings a smile. I'd suggest the .243Win. :D
 
Interesting thread. I don't purposely hunt coyotes. But I would choose a .243 win for longer shots if I had to choose. I believe the barrel life is longer than on a 22-250, but I don't have any data to back that statement up.
 
I chase the coyotes. Here's my take from my experiences.

I was in love with the .204 Ruger for a while when it came out. Does well on yotes. Laser fast and trajectory will make you think you're defying phyics somehow. I hand load all my rounds and yotes worst nightmare is the 40g Berger BT varmints.

Then I got into the .22 hornet. A Ruger 77/22 that I tricked out a little bit. Inside 150 yards it's the most accurate rifle I own.... Well maybe. We were bunting close quarters in WV. Trekking miles and it was light to pack and carry. I came across a lot of old 45g Nosler solid bases. Some of the older guys told me stories about them, made you feel like they were worth their weight in gold. And they did great with our CQC sets in the big woods of Preston County,WV. At the same time my buddy was using his deer rifle, a .243 win. Think he was running 90g bullets? Maybe lighter. But factory stuff. My hornet seemed to be on par with his .243 in all ways performance in the field. Just dropped'em. All shots within 100 yards.

But then came the .22-250. I've always had one and shot it here and there. Never hunted with it. A savage model 11. Ugly wood stock with iron sights. Got it on the cheap but it was savage accurate. Out of the box stock it shot amazing. I turned it into a med to longer range yote slayer. New stock, custom inleting cause it was originally made wrong. Had to do some extra mortising and fitting. Glass bedded and free floated. It was a non accu-trigger so I dropped a new one in. Vortex optics. 22" barrel.

Hand loads with the .22-250 are Hornady 60g v-max on top of Hornady superformance powder. And it is an absolutely awesome load. So much performance. It wacks them so hard but pelt damage is minimal. All the work is internal. It hits them and literally shocks them in their tracks. Dead before they hit the ground. Hydrostatic shock I was told.

I feel with the right setup the 22-250 is superior on yotes over the .243
 
Well thanks for your replies guys...lots of good stuff here, but what kind of pelt damage we talking with either? does the 243 really rip a big gaping smoking hole, (specifically long range) or a nice even 'punch through?
I once seen a coyote hit about 5 steps from the end of my buddy's 6mm rem, but that don't count for measuring pelt damage. Talk about a beautiful pelt up until he blew a patch of fur off its back the size of Texas.

I just plugged in the data form Nosler reloading info into my Sierra infinity ballistics program and it says a .243 with a 85 gr on top of 44.5 grs of IMR 4831 starting velocity of 3240 and energy @ 1981 ft lbs and bleeds down to 504.7 ft lbs @ 600 yards. Velocity still 1635 fps at that range. With that said it seems like a good number to me. What I'd like to know is what kind of hole is its punching at those distances?

The 22-250 is hanging ten with 355 ft lbs which still has enough to anchor a dog, and I can bet it wont be going too far from where it was hit if it still has a little ambition, so its still a cartridge I'd consider for long range work on old Wiley. Who knows with varmint cartridges coyotes are tough sometimes and sometimes will soak it up, and I need all the gun I can get without getting into what's not in the varmint class.

Yeah I know I'm asking about damage to yotes out to specific distance because I know I can pretty much calculate in my own head what will happen as the range gets closer, but my question is particularly 600 yards as it looks like right there is right where things start to go downhill for either. I love both these cartridges to the point its a spit so far.
 
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I feel with the right setup the 22-250 is superior on yotes over the .243
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SRE, you know when you said that I was thinking what if both guns had all the bells and whistles like the best Nightforce scope, full bedded with pillars barrel is a Hart, Lilja, Shilen or the like and all things done to them to make them as straight as possible. How does a 22-250 in the right setup be superior over the 243 if everything is equal other than cartridge/caliber size?
 
Between the 22-250 and the 243. I would have to say 243 hands down. Better bullet selection and heavier bullets. I have a 22-250 Savage Int trophy Hunter.
Now while the rifle is a great set up. it is my least used rifle. Had I done any reasearch I probebly would not have got one. Keep this i mind people-This is MPO- The 22-250 is a wasted caliber. With stock barrels and twist rates it is nothing to crow about. The 223 is far better. You lose about 300FPS, but much more accurate, cheaper to load, heavier bullets, longer barrel and brass life.
You are most times limited to a cheesy 55gn bullet in most 22-250's. How many of you have hunted on a day with 5MPH wind or less?. At least with the 223, or 243 for that matter you can load a much heavier bullet and still have good accuracy. I can shoot the 75 gn A Max with my 1-9 twist 223, no can do with your 22-250. For yotes-300FPS is a very small matter. Just my 2 cents here, yours might vary.
 
Well as much as I want the speed of the 22-250 I don't like the limited heavy bullet selection, unless I seek out a twist rate compatible for them and then that puts me into rifle brand that has a good reputation, but I want to stay with either Remington or Winchester.

On the other hand the 243 lacks the speed/flat trajectory placing the 22-250 a close match to what I'm used to with my .17 rem., however it has the advantage at the longer ranges with heavier bullet selection as a temptation and that's a good thing. I'll just have to get used to the lead and hold over. Its a matter of do I want speed + flatter trajectory or a slower hammer that doesn't drift as much. Its not too often the wind here in SD is under 5mph during the winter and wind influence is a big factor for long range work.
 
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