22-250 Cal. for Whitetail
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Actually it is probably worse. The reason I say this is that most .22-250 rifles have a slower twist and are unable to stabalize most bullets over 55 grains. This really limits the bullet selections you have and keeps you in pretty much in varmint weight bullets.
If you have a larger than .22 caliber rifle available for use, use it if at all possible. Castnblast IIRC used the .22-250 to get a couple of TX deer after a surgery or somthing like that where he couldn't handle a larger caliber. Ask him what he used or search for his post here in the hunting forum.
If you have a larger than .22 caliber rifle available for use, use it if at all possible. Castnblast IIRC used the .22-250 to get a couple of TX deer after a surgery or somthing like that where he couldn't handle a larger caliber. Ask him what he used or search for his post here in the hunting forum.
Wild Bill Bucks
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Almost any rifle will harvest a deer, with a PERFECT shot placement. But in my belief, anything less than a .30 caliber is to small for deer.
If everything is perfect, a deer might give you time to place a good shot, but in the world of deer hunting, you rarely get everything just like you want it. It would be a shame to have to take a less than perfect shot, on a big buck, and lose him, because the bullet did not make enough of a hole to keep bleeding, so that you can trail him over a longer distance.
I'm not bad mouthing the smaller calibers, as they all have their place, but I couldn't tell you how many times I have seen guys lose deer with a .223 or .243 or 22-250.
If you have a choice, go with the bigger caliber.
If everything is perfect, a deer might give you time to place a good shot, but in the world of deer hunting, you rarely get everything just like you want it. It would be a shame to have to take a less than perfect shot, on a big buck, and lose him, because the bullet did not make enough of a hole to keep bleeding, so that you can trail him over a longer distance.
I'm not bad mouthing the smaller calibers, as they all have their place, but I couldn't tell you how many times I have seen guys lose deer with a .223 or .243 or 22-250.
If you have a choice, go with the bigger caliber.
wun_8_seven
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so 7mm , 270 , 6.5 are all to small for deer? right ,and what did you dream the next night?
The .243 with an 85+ grain bullet is just about perfect deer medicine. I don't think it is adequate for elk though plenty have fallen to it. All you need in CO is a 95+ grain bullet for elk in a .243/6mm that delivers 1000 lbs of energy at 100 yards IIRC. It is a far better choice than any .22 caliber rifle for taking of deer. I took my first deer and pronghorn with the .243 and my first elk with the .30-06. I've taken every elk since then with my .270 Win. I've never found a deer yet that required a minimum of a .30 caliber to kill or where a .30 cal actually killed them any deader.
Then you have been witness to some pretty poor shooting in your neck of the woods. Like what was stated before on the .223 thread no amount of caliber makes up for shot placement. A wounded deer with a .22 is a wounded deer with a .50 caliber and you are just as likely to loose it anyway.
Pass Through
When A larger Cal. bullet passes through the deer, the deer will not absorb all of the energy from the shot. A smaller cal. bullet that dosn't exit the animal will cause the animal to absorb all of the energy from the shot thus causing the deer to drop in its tracks so to speak many times. However this shot has to be in the vital area to do the job. The larger cal. shot that passes through may not knock the deer down even though it is in the vitals. The deer may run A short distance than die. If you make an imperfect shot with the larger cal. you have A much better chance of recovery because of the blood factor. So you absolutely can kill deer with A 223 cal. or A 22-250 cal. but you better have the right bullet and make the near perfect shot. I find the neck shot to work very well with these lighter calibers.
When A larger Cal. bullet passes through the deer, the deer will not absorb all of the energy from the shot. A smaller cal. bullet that dosn't exit the animal will cause the animal to absorb all of the energy from the shot thus causing the deer to drop in its tracks so to speak many times. However this shot has to be in the vital area to do the job. The larger cal. shot that passes through may not knock the deer down even though it is in the vitals. The deer may run A short distance than die. If you make an imperfect shot with the larger cal. you have A much better chance of recovery because of the blood factor. So you absolutely can kill deer with A 223 cal. or A 22-250 cal. but you better have the right bullet and make the near perfect shot. I find the neck shot to work very well with these lighter calibers.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
sureshot, in my opinion for what it's worth, it's less the raw number value of energy so much as it is tissue destruction. Sure, higher energy commonly means more tissue destruction, but that's as much a function of bullet design as anything else. That is, a .505 Gibbs solid has a lot more energy than my .243, but the bullet won't tear up much tissue.
My 85-grain .243 bullet makes a double-handful of mush of a deer's heart/lungs. But, so does my '06 with 150-grain bullets--plus an exit wound.
Back to the thread: The best comment, so far, has to do with twist and bullet weight, for the .22-250. Again, shot placement with marginal bullets is far more important than with larger bullets, larger weights and bigger diameter holes of exit wounds. Further, an angling shot is, IMO, pretty much a no-no with the lesser cartridges. Penetration is also important, and no .22 is going to do that well. (Neither is my pet 85-grain .243 load, either.)
Maybe think of it this way: I've no fear of taking a shot on a running deer with my '06. I won't do that with my .243. A less-than-perfect hit with the '06 will likely put the deer down, and a second shot will finish the job. BTDT.
My 85-grain .243 bullet makes a double-handful of mush of a deer's heart/lungs. But, so does my '06 with 150-grain bullets--plus an exit wound.
Back to the thread: The best comment, so far, has to do with twist and bullet weight, for the .22-250. Again, shot placement with marginal bullets is far more important than with larger bullets, larger weights and bigger diameter holes of exit wounds. Further, an angling shot is, IMO, pretty much a no-no with the lesser cartridges. Penetration is also important, and no .22 is going to do that well. (Neither is my pet 85-grain .243 load, either.)
Maybe think of it this way: I've no fear of taking a shot on a running deer with my '06. I won't do that with my .243. A less-than-perfect hit with the '06 will likely put the deer down, and a second shot will finish the job. BTDT.
Have shot plenty of deer with a 22-250, never had a problem. But you need to put the bullet in the right place. 55 grain sp bullets, in the vitals will do it, or a neck shot. Quality bullet good shot placement, no problem. Saw a guy shoot an elphant with a bow on the sportsmans channel, good shot placement, need I say more? Would you like to have a bullet moving 3200 fps hit you? I know I wouldnt. P.O. Ackley wrote alot about using the .220 swift on big game, and if you want to hear a good argument for it look it up and read his opinion on small caliber, high velocity.
That smaller bullet, or any bullet for that matter that does not pass through dumps all it's energy into the animal, true. Now, a larger more powerful caliber that expands equally as well and passes through does not mean it has transferred less energy, it has transferred more. It had so much energy that it could not be stopped. Look at it this way, you hit somebody in the forehead with a 1" stick. You are not going to get a full swing, it will bounce off but you have transferred all of the energy. Take that same swing with a 3" pipe and you are going to transfer a lot more energy with some to spare even though your swing will continue after impact. Back to thread topic, if you really want to hunt with a marginal caliber I would say 22-250 with a strong bullet. Probably a Barnes X or the like.
If your rifle will stabilize the 70 gr Speer your .22-250 will kill deer just as convincingly as the larger calibers. I have seen the 55 gr (which is structured for smaller animals) not achieve deep enough penetration. I have on the other hand also seen the 55 gr work well. I however do not have complete confidence in it like I do the 70 gr Speer. The 70gr Speer will hang together and penetrate deep enough to kill the largest white tails. Your shot placement need be no better than if you were using a 6mm Rem or a .243 the results are the same.
I think bullet energy is one of the most overrated figures we can look at, and I scratch my head when I hear someone talk about pass throughs not delivering all of their energy. The truth is, even when a bullet knocks a deer over, which I have yet to see, it is blood loss that kills. The end of every shot animal (except a head shot) occurs when not enough blood reaches the brain. Thats is why my bow with its piddly 70 ft lbs of energy drops deer within 100 yards of being hit. Arrow goes in one side and out the other, creating a clear wound channel that won't suck shut. Put your finger over one end of a straw and lift it out of a glass of water. A few drips come out but most of the liquid stays in the straw. Release your finger and it all pours out. That is what happens with a pass through lung shot on game.
Will a 22-250 do this? With a perfect broadside shot and a premium bullet, sure. But you need a large enough bullet to cause enough damage to bleed the lungs out, which is why I DO NOT think a 22 centerfire is ideal.
Will a 22-250 do this? With a perfect broadside shot and a premium bullet, sure. But you need a large enough bullet to cause enough damage to bleed the lungs out, which is why I DO NOT think a 22 centerfire is ideal.
I have never shot a deer with a 22-250, but I watched a friend of mine do it. 300+/- yds, standing shot. Nose to toes and down in a heap. Absolutley a lightning kill. However, with most high-velocity/small caliber rounds, you typically get one of two results: either a lightning-quick, drop-right-there kill, or a wounded animal running off. I have seen a few of the first, and talked to people who had some of the other. If you go after deer with a 22-250, shoot the heaviest bullet you can.
phil mcwilliam
New member
One morning I was out meat culling fallow deer(slightly smaller than whitetail) at a property and 9 deer were culled with chest shots from a 22-250. All dropped on the spot at ranges from 100 yards to 250 yards, except one that ran almost like it wasn't hit. It was brought down with a second shot at around 300 yards, but when it was skinned the chest area looked like it had been hit with a shotgun. Lots of little holes , along with the main second killing shot. My theory was the initial shot from the 22-250 caught a twig on the way to the target & disintegrated before it hit. This initial shot would definately not killed the deer. On this morning the 22-250 proved deadly on 8 out of 9 deer, but on the odd occasion that a shot is taken through even light bush, then a heavier calibre has to be better.
I saw this explored by a late nephew who was an exceptional rifleman and experienced deer-slayer. He eventually loaded down to about 3000 fps or a tad below, and proceeded to make clean kills on several big MO whitetail between 80-280 yards, using conventional 55 grain SP's. None went more than a few steps. That experience convinced me that a centerfire .22 can be an entirely servicable deer gun for unobstructed shots which are placed with surgical precision into the heart, or the heavy vessels supplying it.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
One thing to keep in mind about these discussions is that, generally, we're not the Joe Average deer hunter. A lot of us have shooting and hunting as avocations, working up loads and doing a good bit of testing of our gear--and practicing our shooting.
Compare that to the guy who hardly uses up a 20-box of shells a year. Who pumps adrenalin like mad when he sees a decent buck. IMO, he's not the type who can RELIABLY depend on "lesser" cartridges...
Art
Compare that to the guy who hardly uses up a 20-box of shells a year. Who pumps adrenalin like mad when he sees a decent buck. IMO, he's not the type who can RELIABLY depend on "lesser" cartridges...
Art
I agree with Art, the casual hunter needs as much help as he can get, but I am not sure if going with a bigger rifle adds up to help or not. But since here in the USA we seem to think it's OK to just let anybody roam around the woods with a rifle, we get a bunch of mediocre shots that supplement their lack of ability with a more powerful rifle. Remember that about 100 years ago, a 32-20 was considered an excellent deer rifle, and a 30-30 was extremely high powered. But our ancestors were a lot better than we are at stalking, shooting, and (obviously) tracking game.
In many ways, I like the European model of licensing hunters:
* Required shooting ability of 80% hits in a 15 cm circle (about 6") at 100 m from field positions.
* Field identification training required, so you can tell the difference between chamois and roe deer and axis deer.
* Required X number of hours on a shooting range per month, logged at your club.
* Retesting every 2 or 3 years for ability, and rating according to your reported field performance (as reported by a gamekeeper). In many European countries, if you are classified as a Master Hunter, you are someone to be respected in the field.
And, I suppose, these requirements have a lot more to do with why European hunters use smaller caliber rifles, in general.
In many ways, I like the European model of licensing hunters:
* Required shooting ability of 80% hits in a 15 cm circle (about 6") at 100 m from field positions.
* Field identification training required, so you can tell the difference between chamois and roe deer and axis deer.
* Required X number of hours on a shooting range per month, logged at your club.
* Retesting every 2 or 3 years for ability, and rating according to your reported field performance (as reported by a gamekeeper). In many European countries, if you are classified as a Master Hunter, you are someone to be respected in the field.
And, I suppose, these requirements have a lot more to do with why European hunters use smaller caliber rifles, in general.
Will kill them just as dead with proper shot placement. Buddy of mine took two deer using a 22-250 (52 BTHP bullets). One shot through the heart the other one in the head. Both of them went down fast. I prefer the 30.06 myself. Not much room for error using small caliber bullets.
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