2017; Any Police still carrying Revolvers?

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UncleEd,

Can you give me an example of cops, "...spew many more rounds..."?

Your opinion might be spew. Professionally trained cops will see it differently.

I don't give a darn how many rounds a cop or cops fire in a life threatening shootout. I hope they have enough ammo to stay alive. And that's the ONLY metric by which an officer involved shooting is assessed: did the cop(s) survive? If he/they did, it was a good shoot regardless of how many rounds he/they fired.

Cops go home to their families. Bad guys have a choice: jail or morgue. Smart bag guys will choose wisely.
 
shurshot,

Do you really think one cop's opinion, assuming it's authentic, is definitive?

I've personally witnessed accidental discharges with revolvers. A few isolated incidents of accidental discharges does not impute negatively to all revolvers. It would be illogical to arrive at such a conclusion.

Ask yourself a very simple question: if revolvers are tactically superior to semis, why are cops carrying semis?

My Sig P229 .40 S&W is more reliable than any revolver I've had, carried, or have ever fired. I trust it more than ANY revolver, including uber expensive Korth.

In a late 90's article in the FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, it indicated that it cost agencies a half mil to put one cop in service and off training. It has to be a mil now (inflation is an insidious, hidden tax). Don't you think that law enforcement agencies want to preserve their investments in cops by giving the best possible equipment for survival?
 
What about the late Jim Cirillo of the NYPD Stakeout Unit?

20 gunfights, 11 perps kiled, although this is supposedly a conservative number since they didn't keep good records then as they would now, in over 250 stakeout encounters.

The handguns he carried into harms way were two S&W Model 10 .38s, a Colt Cobra and a Walther PPK .32ACP.
Click to expand...
After he retired, he carried two Blocks.
 
In reference to the discussion above, here is another anecdote. Two officers on my shift were trying to arrest two uncooperative car theft suspects. During the incident, the cover officer had his S&W Mod 19 revolver pointed at one of the suspects on the ground while the contact officer was on the ground wrestling with the guy trying to cuff him. For reasons I still don't know, the cover officer had the hammer cocked on his revolver, and he shot the contact officer in the leg. Of course, the cover officer had no intention of firing his weapon at the contact officer or the suspect.

I just ran into the one that was shot a couple of weeks ago at Lowe's, and he is still limping like Festus from Gun Smoke. He made it through intense combat in Viet Nam only to be shot by a fellow officer in the States.

My gun from the academy was a S&W 5906, and we were only able to carry them because the 2nd in charge of my agency, who actually ran everything, was out of town when the actual agency head approved semi-auto pistols against the standing wishes of the 2nd in charge. I probably would have been carrying a revolver for who knows how long if our agency head wasn't more forward thinking in the later '80s.

Also, do y'all revolver fanboys want our young men and women to carry revolvers on the battlefield over there in Crapastan? Do y'all want SEAL Team 6 to show up at their next mission again overwhelming odds carrying a revolver? I'm sure some of you do, but from my experience, a reliable semi-auto pistol which holds more ammo, is easier to reload under stress and won't go out of timing if dropped is the wiser choice.
 
SA1911,

It's a matter of lacking fire control with hi-caps. Have more, use more
and not effectively.

Years ago an officer in Hoffman Estates, IL, let got 15 rounds at
a suspect, hitting him three times, only once in the torso, at
close range. The rest of the rounds hit the ground or went
toward and into houses nearby.

When the NY Transit police first got their Glocks, they missed
a suspect completely but let loose around 30 rounds in a
subway.

A recent incident involved police surrounding suspects'
car and letting loose with dozens upon dozens of rounds
They hit a person inside an apartment and didn't touch
the bad guys.

Many more examples have been reported.

One thing to keep in mind is that police often aren't
all that good of shots and giving them more potential
to shoot doesn't improve matters.

Perhaps agencies need to keep file folders on lack of fire
control so that administrators, firearms trainers can see
better just what has gone on since the hi-caps were
introduced.
 
Ftttu,

One reason many police agencies required double action only
revolvers was to avoid the example you gave. Same thinking
went into making Sigs and Berettas DA only as well when the
hi-caps were being issued.

For that reason, I've known of a number of police agencies that
banned the single action 1911s. This happened in Chicago
years back when an officer tried to rap a suspect with his
pistol and ended up killing his partner. For years Chicago also
wouldn't OK the Glock because of its trigger mechanism.

And of course where the Glock has been authorized many times
the so-called New York trigger is required which is around I think
the weight of a DA revolver, 10 pounds or more.

Also, don't try to compare military needs with police needs although
I know the streets of America are often referred to as war zones.
 
SA1911; Just my opinion, as I stated. Not trying to be "definitive". No need to be condescending guys. Carry what you will, I will do the same. You ask why LEO Agency's are picking semis? Ammo capacity is one reason, due to the fact that many recruits are NOT gun people, and often are very poor shots, only barely qualifying, 40 out of 50 in a man sized target at under 25 yards isn't very good shooting if you ask me. I know a kid with a wrist rocket slingshot who can outshoot many police officers I have seen shooting handguns. Seriously. It's pitiful. Many have never touched a firearm prior to being hired. Some, both male and female, are recoil sensitive and 9MM is easier for many to qualify with. Bigger magazines equal a greater chance that a piss poor shot makes a hit in a self defense situation. Hiring practices... well, thats another topic. Cost... semis are cheaper and easier to fix than revolvers, at least that's what the agency Firearms instructors all tell me. Drop in parts, minimal, if any fitting required, compared to six shooters. Rules, policys and equipment all have to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Remember, another reason for the current use of semiautomatic is that many recruits have "little hands" and the adjustable palm swells on some models allow easily fitting a single pistol to either a 90 pound petite, ex cheerleader female or a 300 pound ex defensive lineman. Remember, agencys are controlled by one driving force, as always... Money. The budget drives everything else, always has. Firearms manufacturers are in the business to sell guns and they often offer LEO Agency's attractive trade in value on older service weapons when they are traded in towards new equipment. Technology sells. Some wanted the latest and greatest model on the cover of the monthly gun magazine. Add in LEO Unions as a factor, which are constantly pushing policy and equipment that are tantamount towards "Officer safety" and the desire to stay as well armed as the criminals. Research the infamous Miami shootout in the mid 80's, this was a turning point and another reason many Department's switched over to pistols from revolvers. So Money, culture, poor shooting and more diverse hiring practices all factored into the mid 80's / early 90's LEO switch from wheelguns to pistols. And no FTTU, I don't think the military should use revolvers. Apple's and oranges. It's a slippery slope when one starts comparing the two. Do you desire to have your local police militarized? Should police wear helmets, carry grenades and drive around in tanks? Ask for your travel papers and frisk you at check points? Impose Martial law and suspend the Constitution in the name of "Public safety"? Most of us would hopefuly say no. Hey, I love all types of handguns, including semiautomatics. I just don't TRUST them, as I have observed far too many jams over my lifetime. Not trying to be definitive, just giving my observations and preferences. Carry what you trust my friends and train often. John Dillinger allegedly stated the phrase "there are two things in life you can't trust, the word of a District Attorney and Automatic pistols". Ask yourself, If the semiautomatic is so great and technologically advanced, why is there such a focus in LEO & tactical training on clearing jams, "tap n' rack", etc.? Because they jam!
 
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shurshot,

Don't be condescending.

Your:

"You ask why LEO Agency's are picking semis? Ammo capacity is one reason, due to the fact that many recruits are NOT gun people, and often are very poor shots, only barely qualifying, 40 out of 50 in a man sized target at under 25 yards isn't very good shooting if you ask me. I know a kid with a wrist rocket slingshot who can outshoot many police officers I have seen shooting handguns. Seriously. It's pitiful. Many have never touched a firearm prior to being hired. Some, both male and female, are recoil sensitive and 9MM is easier for many to qualify with."

is wholly unsubstantiated opinion that exposes your agenda.

You have no clue of which you write, and you'll make up stuff in prayer that it'll support your agenda.

Here's a huge clue for you: nearly every cop in America is a much better shot than you. Every single cop has to establish minimum proficiency with firearms or he doesn't pass minimum proficiency necessary for academy graduation. Moreover, cops have to demonstrate continued minimum proficiency with firearms during qualifications that are established by every states' law enforcement regulating agency; e.g., CA POST.

Finally, your crapola about 25 yards qualification is just that: made up crap. I can definitively tell you every law enforcement agency of which I'm aware shoot no farther than 15 yards during qualification. If you're shooting at 25 yards, you're target shooting, not tactically shooting.

Find something that you know and stick with it.

Let me write this again so as you'll understand it and hopefully disabuse you of your unsubstantiated assumptions: a good quality semi is more reliable than a good quality revolver. I've have revolvers fail. I've seen other revolvers fail. I have never, ever seen a good quality semi fail: EVER!!!

Welcome to the 21st century.
 
Uncle_Ed,

Your,

"It's a matter of lacking fire control with hi-caps. Have more, use more
and not effectively."

Is your misinformed opinion.

There is nothing knowledge based than can be taken from your reciting accounts of officer involved shootings. In fact, all they contain is your opinion of what happened.

It would do you a world of good to subscribe to professional law enforcement journals.
 
SA1911, Now you resort to a personal attacks and deny that any LEO's have to qualify over 15 yards? 15 yards on a night qual perhaps. Lol! You just outed yourself, bigtime. Most LEO qual courses are shot in various stages from 3 yards out to 18, 20 or 25, depending upon individual agency and State. Last I knew, the FBI qual was out to 25 in various stages. But you know this, right? Are you even an LEO? Mall security? Have YOU yourself ever shot an LEO qual course? You might want to research things a bit before stating "facts" and disparging others. You like semiautomatics and have some valid points, I give you that. I prefer revolvers for reasons I covered. Relax. We all have an opinion. Lol! No need to attack someone you don't know because they have a different perspective and possibly more experience than you. FYI; most of the time I shoot 49/50 or 49/49 when I qualify, not as good as some, but better than most I have shot with. Be safe and train well.
 
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SA1911; Ok, you got me. I just noticed your recent join date and post count. You Trolled me. Good one. Go play elsewhere.
 
Since this has become a school yard rumpus, I'm shutting it down. I've cautioned some participants to watch language and be polite. Take that advice to heart.

Just as an anecdote. I was taking a tactical class out in semi-boonies in TX. The class was from a guest visiting instructor set from a well known outfit. We had procured a room for dinner in a local BBQ place. As we were eating, the local sheriff wandered in a gave us the stink eye. He had a big cowboy hat and a chrome looking SAA. He was looking at about twelve guys loaded down with modern polymer high capacity guns under concealment. This was in the 90's, IIRC.

Flash forward to this year. Going to a funeral in the boonies in TX. We stop at a local BBQ on the way. Two local law come in for lunch also. 1911s and extra mags.

So what.

Closed.
 
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