1st batch of 380 failing plunk test

It's from an old list that had Berry's name on it. I see from your link they now want 0.960" on the RN's so they may have changed their shapes a little since the data I have was published. I missed seeing that you'd posted that number already. Same effect for Bob, though. His COL at 0.982" is too long and he is barely hanging onto his bullets. Another 0.022" deeper will make a difference.
 
This discussion is leading me to think that it may be time to take my Harbor Fright Tools mini lathe out of the box and undertake my first project.

I'm set up for all handgun loads to use Lee 4-die sets with the powder-through expander die. It occurs to me that I could buy a powder through expander die for a slightly larger caliber (like maybe .38 Special, or 9mm Makarov), chuck the expander plug into the lathe, and create a powder through die for .380 ACP that replicates the step of the Lyman M die.
 
Do yourself a favor and get a RCBS taper crimp die. I've found that Lee factory crimp handgun dies to more harm than good... I'm not Lee bashing either. I have a lot of Lee tools that I think are both clever in design and well made.

Tony
 
You can turn your own M profile in an existing die if the steel's not too hard. Try to nick a spot that doesn't matter with a file. If you have a toolpost grinder, that will deal with even the hard stuff. If not, just get a piece of steel and make the whole part. Brass isn't very hard, so unhardened drill rod stock will work and last well.
 
I ordered the Lyman M expander die. Hopefully that does it. If I end up needing to replace the FCD as well, Ill return the Lee aet and start over with another
brand.
 
Geezerbiker said:
Do yourself a favor and get a RCBS taper crimp die. I've found that Lee factory crimp handgun dies to more harm than good... I'm not Lee bashing either. I have a lot of Lee tools that I think are both clever in design and well made.
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Yeah, I know someone else who keeps telling me that.

All I know is that I have loaded many thousands of rounds of handgun ammo, all except maybe a dozen .44 Colt Original prototypes done with Lee factory crimp dies. I haven't experienced any issues that would suggest to me that the FCD is doing bad things, so my view is ... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I'll keep on using the FCD unless/until circumstances take me in another direction.
 
I fired the rounds that did come out ok yesterday. They worked great. Fed, fired and ejected just as good as store bought ammo. They did seem pretty hot compared to box ammo though, due to the shorter COAL I guess. So, I think downloading from the minimum powder charge a bit might have been better. But they seem to be at what would have been the max.

I ordered the M die. I'm pretty sure the problem is my technique not getting all the bullets in strait. Hopefully the Lyman M die will help with that.
 
Looking quickly through these posts, and having similar issues in the past I would check the length of your fired brass to see that it is the SAME length. Length controls the amount of bell on the case. Next thing, how can you test the the sized case, with bell, in your chamber, I never could. With large diameter bullets on short cases I needed more bell to get them straight and they wouldn't drop in until crimped.
 
BondoBob said:
They did seem pretty hot compared to box ammo though, due to the shorter COAL I guess.
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What shorter COAL? You're considerably longer than the bullet manufacturer calls for, and just .002" under the SAAMI maximum COAL for .380 ACP.
 
Bondobob have you tried turning the seating die down half a turn, and repeating that until offending rounds do chamber? Also seat that longer bullet a wee bit deeper. I had the same problem with my LCP and the Berry's 100 grain bullets. My Browning .380 1911 feeds them without problem. If they are too long my LCP chokes on them.
 
My experience with the 380acp with both plated and cast lead bullets.

My 380acp is loaded on an junk antique Lee 3 hole Turret Press with simple Lee Carbide 3 die standard pistol die set with the Lee powder thru flaring die so I can use the Lee auto powder measures.

On this setup I have loaded Xtreme 100gr RNFP, Berry's 100gr FBRN and Berry's 100gr HBRN plated bullets. For cast bullets I've loaded a 35692 RN from unknown mold, Lee 356-95 FP and a Lee 356-102-R1. Some of the cast lead 95gr and 102gr Lee bullets had been powder coated. Also checking my log book I have loaded the Lee 356-102 sized at .356", .357" and as cast at almost .358" With the plated and cast bullets I've used lengths from .955" to as long as .970".. The cast Lee 95gr FP was loaded to .930"

Again all of these finished with just a 3 die set and the seating and crimping all done in one stroke, All rounds loaded are also done with sorted head stamps just for consistency.

At this point I am trying to understand why these are not passing the magic Case Gage of whatever manufacturer. Also knot understanding why the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die is not post sizing these rounds.

I have shot these in 380acp rounds in 4 different pistols with the setting point being that the length must fit the shortest chamber.

BondoBob I surely hope you can get this sorted out.
 
I think because he was seating too shallow and getting the bullets started in canted and didn't have a seating die ram that tended to straighten the bullet nor had enough seating depth for the sides of the case to do some degree of straightening, he got the bulge in the case over top of the bullet base that has the rub marks in his photo. The M-die will stop it regardless of his seating depth. Why the CFCD didn't iron it out is a good question. It may just be springing back.
 
Agreed that I believe his seating depth is too shallow. In my mind for the Berry's .356" 100gr RN even at .970" is too long.

He states the empty sized case will drop right in and right out so the sizing die appears to be working correctly. I always adjust the Lee powder thru flare die as per Lee's instructions. As I have tried one cannot over flare with this die and in some cases with cast bullets I wish it would flare more. So I suggest setting the die per Lee's instructions and start with a new clean dummy round.

This is more work but may prove the fault. Adjust the seating die out so there is no crimp and try seating a bullet to .970".. At this point the bullet should not drop into either the barrel or your test gauge because of the flare. Now back the seating stem out so it will not make contact and then slowly turn the die down to start removing the crimp. Here you can raise the round into the die and slowly turn the die until it makes contact. From there lower the ram, turn the die 1/4 turn and continue this until it will drop into the case.

From here you may have to adjust the bullet seating depth a little deeper if the bullet is hitting the lands/rifling and is sticking or won't chamber completely in the barrel or will not fall out when turned upside down.

Also try this W/O the Lee CFCD.
 
What shorter COAL? You're considerably longer than the bullet manufacturer calls for, and just .002" under the SAAMI maximum COAL for .380 ACP.
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Aguila, I was referring to the fact that I used Jacked bullet data for a plated bullet. I didn't have any powders on hand that were listed in my load data for plated. The Min COAL (as Lee Manual States it) was. .980 for Jacketed bullets with Universal powder. It did not occur to me to use the .960 COAL that Lee stated for the plated bullets with other powders. Lee lists a min OAL not an average or a maximum. So, I assumed that going deeper could create over pressure. I decided to experiment with this load erring on the side of caution. After reading the responses here, I went back to the press and re-seated them down to .960 then went to the range. I did not re-crimp only pushed them in .022. Best 380 rounds I ever shot.

I didn't even try chambering in my guns the rounds that failed the chamber checker. I'm very new to reloading (less than 500 rounds under my belt) so I'm being very cautious.

The case lengths checked out ok.

Thy Lyman M die should be here in a week or two. I'll return and post results here.

Shooting for 100% success rate (pun intended) like I get with 38 and 357.
 
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BondoBob said:
I didn't even try chambering in my guns the rounds that failed the chamber checker. I'm very new to reloading (less than 500 rounds under my belt) so I'm being very cautious.
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You're overly cautious. Whether or not your loaded ammo fits the chamber checker is irrelevant. All it does is determine if the round fits the dimensions of the reamer used to cut the chamber checker. The reamer used for your barrel might have different dimension and still be within SAAMI specs.

Your ammo has to fit your barrel's chamber. And it has to fit your magazine and feed reliably. That's all. Really.

You won't be shooting the ammo from your chamber checker, so, and this bears repeating, whether or not your loaded ammo fits the chamber checker is irrelevant.

Really, it would be okay to throw away or put the chamber gauge in a drawer and forget about it. People get confused by chamber gauges and think their ammo MUST fit it. It doesn't.

Just because a round DOES fit the chamber gauge does not mean it will fit your barrel. People see this happen, too, and get confused about it and think they have a bad barrel. They don't. Companies use different reamer dimensions for their barrels. It does not mean the barrels are defective (although that does happen).
 
74A95, I tried them in the barrels. Most don't drop in. Some did, but need a little push and failed to drop out. I suppose I could try firing them. But these pocket pistols are finicky as it is. I believe that this indicates the chamber checker I have, while less forgiving, is pretty darn close to the Kahr PM380 barrel. The Sig P238 is a tad wider but not much, almost the same results.
 
BondoBob....

Imagine you are making replacement aircraft parts that will be sed to keep them flying in a combat zone.

You don't have the plane in question(a chamber) to try your part on.
The mechanic needs a part that fits any aircraft built to specs. Done right,engineering and tolerance study allows a gauge to be built so that if it passes the gauge it should fit any airplane.

Same with guns,reloading,and guages. SAAMI documents the standard dimensions for USA ammo and guns.

Your gauge is the last word that your ammo passes SAAMI dimensions and should run in any SAAMI gun. (for the dimension(s) the gauge is designed to check)

Your gauge is not junk,and IMO,it would be a mistake to retire it to a drawer.

Am I correct,you have more than one .380? What if you buy another? Do you want to discover you loaded 1000 rounds that fit your first gun,but won't run in your new gun?

If the ammo fits your gauge,it shoulf fit any gun made to SAAMI spec.

If your gauge won't accept the ammo,you have a problem to correct. Tilted bullets and distorted cases.

You are taking steps to correct that problem. Great!!

To not fully solve the tilted problem,you have ammo the gauge rejects.
Because your chamber has some diametral tolerance,it accepts some reject,non SAAMI ammo. You can use your chamber to sort reject ammo.

Or you can refine your skill and process to make only good,SAAMI ammo.

The gauge is a good tool to assure your ammo remains quality.

You are new to reloading. You get to decide if you produce quality,or mediocre ammo you have to sort.
 
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HiBC said:
Same with guns,reloading,and guages. SAAMI documents the standard dimensions for USA ammo and guns.

Your gauge is the last word that your ammo passes SAAMI dimensions and should run in any SAAMI gun. (for the dimension(s) the gauge is designed to check)

Your gauge is not junk,and IMO,it would be a mistake to retire it to a drawer.
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Good explanation.

BondoBob said:
74A95, I tried them in the barrels. Most don't drop in. Some did, but need a little push and failed to drop out. I suppose I could try firing them. But these pocket pistols are finicky as it is. I believe that this indicates the chamber checker I have, while less forgiving, is pretty darn close to the Kahr PM380 barrel. The Sig P238 is a tad wider but not much, almost the same results.
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If you have stated which chamber checker you have, I missed it. It shouldn't matter. All the chamber checkers I'm aware of are made to the SAAMI minimum chamber dimensions. This means, as HiBC explained, that ammo passing the chamber checker should function in ANY firearm that meets SAAMI specs -- which have a tolerance for both ammo dimensions and for chamber dimensions.

Which means that the way you expressed the situation is reversed.

"I believe that this indicates the chamber checker I have, while less forgiving, is pretty darn close to the Kahr PM380 barrel. The Sig P238 is a tad wider but not much, almost the same results.'

What you're really saying is that the Kahr barrel is closer to SAAMI minimum chamber dimensions than the Sig P238 barrel. You should be judging the barrels relative to the chamber checker, not judging the chamber checker relative to the barrels.
 
never have done 380 but I have done a $h*t ton of 9mm....you said your using the Lee FCD.....in my dealings and looking at your photo....you may have it crimping it to much....looks like its slidding pass the lip it should head space on ( to me)
also make sure seating die is set to not add a roll crimp to it before you use the FCD....
also on the 9mm FCD it resizes it again in and out of the die...so any bulge is gone....it really shouldn't be this difficult.
 
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