1913 German Luger ID help.

It is possible but unlikely that a 1938 pistol will have stamps made from the same master as the ones used in 1913, so I am not sure that helps. However, all the serial number stamps of a given size on a Luger would have been made from the same master and should be identical. If they are not, questions arise.

I guess I am getting old, but 1975 doesn't seem that long ago, and I can assure you that Luger "artwork" was taking place long before that. (I knew a man who made fake Luger carbines so good he made a special mark on the fore-end hanger so he would not accidentally buy one of his own "products". And that was 1958.)

The "bringback certificates" are interesting, though I don't see why there would be two of them for the same gun. They are common, and are so often faked that most collectors don't consider them of much value. I note that two different officers in two different units spelled the name "Luger" wrong; or were the papers written more recently by the same person? If you want, you can research the 87th Mountain Infantry Regiment and see whether it existed, and where it was in 1945.

As to "sturm und drang" coming at me, I had the temerity a week or so ago to state that a pictured pistol had been reblued. The owner not only denied that but let loose a barrage of rather nasty language. I have no reason to disparage your (or anyone else's) gun. When someone posts on a site and says, in effect, "look what I have", he/she needs to understand that not all comments will be favorable and that people who recognize a problem will usually make their concerns known.

P.S. The inspection mark on the rear toggle does indicate that the toggle at least is from Erfurt; DWM did not mark their toggles that way.

Jim
 
It is possible but unlikely that a 1938 pistol will have stamps made from the same master as the ones used in 1913, so I am not sure that helps. However, all the serial number stamps of a given size on a Luger would have been made from the same master and should be identical. If they are not, questions arise...

I agree, Jim. I posted that picture because the toggle is DWM and just by coincidence happens to have 54 as last two digits as does SD_Chop's P08. At the time I thought his toggle was DWM so my picture might help with ID and what the struck numbers look like.

There's no way of knowing what year the DWM toggle I pictured actually is since it's long been separated from its barreled receiver. It just happens to be in a Mauser 1938 barreled receiver, no other relation. In fact that upper combination came in the P08 I bought in 1975. The frame was DWM and by the serial number is 1913. It was a real mutt with parts from 15 different Lugers! Other than looks it functioned fine.

About 2005 I bought a 1913 DWM barreled receiver on eBay and married all the DWM parts to have a WWI P08. Later I found an age correct S/42 toggle train to marry to the 1938 Mauser upper. I can put either upper on the DWM lower and have a genuine WWI P08 or what appears to be a WWII P08. Amazingly either way, the FrankenLuger functions fine! Oh well, none of this has anything to do with SD_Chop's P08 which is a true family heirloom. I hope he does get out soon with his father-in-law and enjoy shooting the old Luger! At least my story shows that you can expect a mismatched Luger to work after inspecting it well.
 
I knew a fellow who had an all matching Luger, except for the sideplate. After some years, he came across a sideplate with the same number his Luger had. Odds are about 0 (zero) it was the original side plate from his gun.

But, it IS the sideplate on his gun now. And he is technically honest when he says he has an "all matching number Luger".

He is also very scrupulous about never claiming his all matching gun is "all original". It's not. but it IS all matching! ;)

Several of the pictured marks were not in my references for a 1913 dated Luger. Where that Luger went and what happened to it between 1913 and 1975 is anyone's guess.
 
It's sad that there are so many mismatched (or otherwise "non-collectable") Lugers but at least the lower price allows some of us to afford a Luger and actually shoot it. That's how I got my ugly duckling in a pawn shop in 1975. It was obvious why it was only $150 vs. nice ones at 2-4+ times the price.

After WWII lots of Lugers and tons of parts poured into the USA because there was a love affair with the Luger and because we actually could own pistols unlike most countries in Europe. Mine possibly was put together toward the end of WWII when German armorers had to get anything out in the field - or more likely postwar from parts in the USA.

For near matching P08s, it's easy to visualize soldiers cleaning their pistols together - and mixing up parts. This was anticipated by the military which is why so many parts have the last two digits from the serial number. Still part mixing obviously happened. And it happened postwar in gun shops and gun shows, etc.

Of course anyone with a beautiful P08 with just one mismatched part will want to find a proper numbered part and these forced matches do happen as 44 AMP described. A Luger gunsmith, LugerDoc, at the Luger forums has helped people find that special part they need.

Anyway, SD_Chop's Luger is a wonderful family heirloom that has been in the family for decades. How it got the way it is, who knows but it has way more value to his family than any collectable Luger! Thanks for sharing the story, we all learned something!
 
Back
Top