I freed myself from all my 1911 pistols, I admit they were accurate and the 1911 is aesthetically pleasing to me, however, I was never happy with the reliability, I had Kimber, Colt, and Sprinfield, all full size. They did pretty good with 230 grain ball ammunition, but I often had reliability problems with HP ammo. In the end I dumped the 1911 platform for more modern 45s.
1911's
- Thread starter DAKA
- Start date
To the OP, I suggest finding a range where you can rent a 1911 and try one out before buying. Then you will get to experience why there is a lot of love for the platform. As others have said, the trigger is probably better than any other pistol, even on base models. I also find it easier to instinctively aim. My wife had never shot a pistol before she shot my 1911, and her first shot was a bulls-eye at 21 feet.
Of course, after the first shot she started to flinch and the rest weren’t so good! But she’s gotten better at that and it is still her favorite.
Of course, after the first shot she started to flinch and the rest weren’t so good! But she’s gotten better at that and it is still her favorite.
I don't know that a 50 round range session will do it. There is a familiarity that can grow between a hand and a tool.
One or two range sessions with a single action cowboy wheel gun will be a novelty experience. Carry one a while and maybe you will think "If I could only have one gun..." Or not. Tastes vary.
After about a wheelbarrow load of ammo,shooting a particular handgun might become a bit like driving with manual transmission and a clutch...its a natural,flowing thing to do. It might all come together in joy of driving,double clutching,downshifting,picking lines and rpms,using throttle to drive the corner. Its more than a two speed auto in a MiniVan.
Once you get there with a 1911,they are all 1911's,and they feel like home.
The skills transfer.
You can find all kinds of good tools. But a new gun of the month means you start over.
Confidence and competence with a good familiar tool can get the job done
One or two range sessions with a single action cowboy wheel gun will be a novelty experience. Carry one a while and maybe you will think "If I could only have one gun..." Or not. Tastes vary.
After about a wheelbarrow load of ammo,shooting a particular handgun might become a bit like driving with manual transmission and a clutch...its a natural,flowing thing to do. It might all come together in joy of driving,double clutching,downshifting,picking lines and rpms,using throttle to drive the corner. Its more than a two speed auto in a MiniVan.
Once you get there with a 1911,they are all 1911's,and they feel like home.
The skills transfer.
You can find all kinds of good tools. But a new gun of the month means you start over.
Confidence and competence with a good familiar tool can get the job done
The Model 1911 is much like several guns which fall into the love it or hate it class of guns. There are those who swear by the gun and others who see it as a bulky antique without a place in today's world of guns. I guess the beauty rest in the eye of the beholder and myself, personally, I began a love affair with the Model 1911 during 1969 in the Marine Corps. That love affair extended into today with a collection of about a dozen of them and I lean towards the Colt Series 70 guns, including a few Gold Cup flavors.
Like any gun, as mentioned, I suggest a try before buy and see how the gun feels to you, how it fits your hand and your style of shooting a semi-automatic handgun. Just because someone else likes a gun design and it "feels" right in their paws does not make it a good fit for your paws or also important your taste. I see a gun, much like I see my motorcycle or my truck. They are an extension of my personal taste.
Buy or not? Your call but again, try before you buy and if you choose to buy then remember, like any new to you gun it takes some rounds down range to master the tool.
Ron
There have really been no advances in handgun design, other than in materials, in 100 years.
The 1911 is no more of an antique than any other handgun that shoots metallic cartridges.
Too big? Get a compact version.
Too heavy? Get an alloy-framed version.
Low capacity? Get a 2011 hi-cap variant.
And, unlike a lot of other guns, if some part of the gun doesn't fit, you can replace various parts so it conforms to you.
I've read a lot of "it didn't fit" comments about various guns, but that doesn't really apply to a 1911 properly outfitted.
You do have to decide the price point. I find $1000 to be a sweet spot for quality and desirable features, but you can go with half that, or five times that, depending on your budget and other considerations.
I consider a cheap 1911 to not really be a 1911 at all, because the generally better fit and finish of more expensive guns is part of the 1911's attraction.
If you want a bullet-slinging implement, get a plastic-framed, striker-fired something.
On another forum, a guy was saying, "With all that care and maintenance, I'll stick with my plastic, striker-fired guns", which struck me as making about as much sense as saying, "With all the care and maintenance a Ferrari needs, I'll stick to my 20yo pick-up truck."
The 1911 is no more of an antique than any other handgun that shoots metallic cartridges.
Too big? Get a compact version.
Too heavy? Get an alloy-framed version.
Low capacity? Get a 2011 hi-cap variant.
And, unlike a lot of other guns, if some part of the gun doesn't fit, you can replace various parts so it conforms to you.
I've read a lot of "it didn't fit" comments about various guns, but that doesn't really apply to a 1911 properly outfitted.
You do have to decide the price point. I find $1000 to be a sweet spot for quality and desirable features, but you can go with half that, or five times that, depending on your budget and other considerations.
I consider a cheap 1911 to not really be a 1911 at all, because the generally better fit and finish of more expensive guns is part of the 1911's attraction.
If you want a bullet-slinging implement, get a plastic-framed, striker-fired something.
On another forum, a guy was saying, "With all that care and maintenance, I'll stick with my plastic, striker-fired guns", which struck me as making about as much sense as saying, "With all the care and maintenance a Ferrari needs, I'll stick to my 20yo pick-up truck."
Its iconic and historical and cool and the gun mfgs have gone nuts making them.
It was probably the earliest riliable semi auto you could mass produce.
Accuracy if its there is the longer sight radius. Really nothing more accurate about them unless they have been accurized.
I read one company offering (like $2500 custom) the guy was raving about the accurate (you know gun writers, not exactly the honest ones as they get free guns to play with and you can't let your sources dry up).
It was 2.5 inches at 25 . Really, you consider that ACCURATE!
With SD ammo 45 caliber has not advantage, though the Army though big ball ammo was the way to go (hmmm, FMJ, straight through someone, that works out well how?)
Had em, shot em a lot particular when younger, they are just a gun that is not nearly as good as a DA semi auto in my opinion.
I don't like strikers either but them I grew up comfortable with revolvers.
So unless you have that desire, meah.
It was probably the earliest riliable semi auto you could mass produce.
Accuracy if its there is the longer sight radius. Really nothing more accurate about them unless they have been accurized.
I read one company offering (like $2500 custom) the guy was raving about the accurate (you know gun writers, not exactly the honest ones as they get free guns to play with and you can't let your sources dry up).
It was 2.5 inches at 25 . Really, you consider that ACCURATE!
With SD ammo 45 caliber has not advantage, though the Army though big ball ammo was the way to go (hmmm, FMJ, straight through someone, that works out well how?)
Had em, shot em a lot particular when younger, they are just a gun that is not nearly as good as a DA semi auto in my opinion.
I don't like strikers either but them I grew up comfortable with revolvers.
So unless you have that desire, meah.
I guess I will be the odd one out. I have had numerous experiences with 1911's. I have owned a Remington which was terrible. But I will give benefit of the doubt and say I had gotten a bad one. It jammed. A lot. The trigger was gritty and not smooth by any means.
Next was a Ruger SR1911 of a friends. I shot it very well, and very much enjoyed it. The overall appearance was appealing as well. However, I was limited to a magazine full to shoot.
Next came a Kimber full size. It jammed at least once per magazine sometimes two. The owner claimed it needed a 500 round break in period. Okay, that may be acceptable to him, but not me. That is about $200(?) in ammo, so spending money on a Kimber then that in ammo was not right in my mind.
During the police academy I was given a chance to shoot one of my instructor's Kimber commander size 1911. Of which I really liked. It did not jam once and it was a tack driver. So, I set out in search of one just like his, of which leads me to my next 1911 purchase with a backstory.
Coming from an LEO family I was raised on duty guns. Of which consisted of Glocks. The first gun I ever shot was a Glock 22 .40S&W. That being said I was always fascinated in WWI, WWII, and mostly Vietnam. I spent a lot of time watching documentaries on the aforementioned wars and always admired the 1911's used then. I have always wanted one and had a burning desire to own one. However, funds have not allowed for that to happen.
While searching for that commander size Kimber I ran across a Colt 1911 Series 80 that I was able to trade a Colt Lawman MKIII for. It had the WORST cerakote job and some god awful looking grips. Well, I took it to a gun smith and had it stripped and parkerized. I also had the awful trigger, hammer, and slide stop replaced with some USGI parts he had. Next were the brown plastic grips. Now I have a Colt that looks very similar to that of a WWI 1911. Shooting it has been fun. I am decent with it, but not the best. I shoot much better with my Sig P220. I am actually considering getting rid of that Colt. While yes it looks identical to a USGI deep down I know it isn't, and it isn't satisfying my desire.
Overall my experience with 1911's is about 50/50. I understand the historical aspect as well as appearance aspext. However, in my hands I am a lot more accurate at 25 yards with a Glock than I ever am with a 1911.
If you want a 1911 I say go for it. I would reccomend doing as mentioned and starting off with something like RIA, or a Ruger. There is still a very large following for the 1911's as you can see by previous posts, but I am not one.
Next was a Ruger SR1911 of a friends. I shot it very well, and very much enjoyed it. The overall appearance was appealing as well. However, I was limited to a magazine full to shoot.
Next came a Kimber full size. It jammed at least once per magazine sometimes two. The owner claimed it needed a 500 round break in period. Okay, that may be acceptable to him, but not me. That is about $200(?) in ammo, so spending money on a Kimber then that in ammo was not right in my mind.
During the police academy I was given a chance to shoot one of my instructor's Kimber commander size 1911. Of which I really liked. It did not jam once and it was a tack driver. So, I set out in search of one just like his, of which leads me to my next 1911 purchase with a backstory.
Coming from an LEO family I was raised on duty guns. Of which consisted of Glocks. The first gun I ever shot was a Glock 22 .40S&W. That being said I was always fascinated in WWI, WWII, and mostly Vietnam. I spent a lot of time watching documentaries on the aforementioned wars and always admired the 1911's used then. I have always wanted one and had a burning desire to own one. However, funds have not allowed for that to happen.
While searching for that commander size Kimber I ran across a Colt 1911 Series 80 that I was able to trade a Colt Lawman MKIII for. It had the WORST cerakote job and some god awful looking grips. Well, I took it to a gun smith and had it stripped and parkerized. I also had the awful trigger, hammer, and slide stop replaced with some USGI parts he had. Next were the brown plastic grips. Now I have a Colt that looks very similar to that of a WWI 1911. Shooting it has been fun. I am decent with it, but not the best. I shoot much better with my Sig P220. I am actually considering getting rid of that Colt. While yes it looks identical to a USGI deep down I know it isn't, and it isn't satisfying my desire.
Overall my experience with 1911's is about 50/50. I understand the historical aspect as well as appearance aspext. However, in my hands I am a lot more accurate at 25 yards with a Glock than I ever am with a 1911.
If you want a 1911 I say go for it. I would reccomend doing as mentioned and starting off with something like RIA, or a Ruger. There is still a very large following for the 1911's as you can see by previous posts, but I am not one.
polyphemus
New member
Buy American
I wanted something I could tinker around with and not be terribly upset if I somehow ruined it. I bought an ATI GI Commander size for $366. For the money I don't think I could have bought better for $650. Prettier, yes but not more functional. Trigger leaves a little to be desired but it works.
It's accurate and reliable, all you can ask for in a basic 1911.
Now, the first one I got shot about four inches low at seven yards. Contacted ATI, they sent me a shipping label, sent it back. Took a few weeks but they replaced it.
All the Best,
D. White
It's accurate and reliable, all you can ask for in a basic 1911.
Now, the first one I got shot about four inches low at seven yards. Contacted ATI, they sent me a shipping label, sent it back. Took a few weeks but they replaced it.
All the Best,
D. White
I own two 1911s....a series 80 Colt Gold Cup and a Springfield Armory “loaded”.
The Colt has more than 70,000 rounds through it. I can count the FTFs on the fingers of one hand. It will still hold three inches at 50 yards. (It will. I can’t.)
The SA has fewer rounds through it and has NEVER malfunctioned.
The Colt was worked over by the late George Madore who improved the factory trigger.The SA is stock.
The Colt has more than 70,000 rounds through it. I can count the FTFs on the fingers of one hand. It will still hold three inches at 50 yards. (It will. I can’t.)
The SA has fewer rounds through it and has NEVER malfunctioned.
The Colt was worked over by the late George Madore who improved the factory trigger.The SA is stock.
I have quite a few 1911s, stock and custom, no idea how many others have passed through my hands, I carry them and compete with them, it's my favorite handgun design. As others have said, it's the trigger and the ergonomics that really set the design apart from the crowd. There are few guns as enjoyable and satisfying to shoot as quality, well fit and finished, 1911 pistol.
You can get into a 1911 relatively inexpensively thanks to the Philipino and Turkish made guns, however, as RickB said inexpensive basic GI style 1911s aren't necessarily going to give you the best 1911 experience. Because of the price point and lack of detailed attention to fit and finish, they often have many of the same issues that guys complained about the old GI guns they were issued having - gritty heavy triggers, sharp edges, hammer bite, etc.. Consider trying something out that's a step or two above the bottom rung of the ladder and I'll bet it will be a more enjoyable experience for you. Chances are you can find a friend that will let you shoot their gun(s) or something to rent at a range. If you happen to live in Maine, I'd be happy to let you shoot some of mine.
You can get into a 1911 relatively inexpensively thanks to the Philipino and Turkish made guns, however, as RickB said inexpensive basic GI style 1911s aren't necessarily going to give you the best 1911 experience. Because of the price point and lack of detailed attention to fit and finish, they often have many of the same issues that guys complained about the old GI guns they were issued having - gritty heavy triggers, sharp edges, hammer bite, etc.. Consider trying something out that's a step or two above the bottom rung of the ladder and I'll bet it will be a more enjoyable experience for you. Chances are you can find a friend that will let you shoot their gun(s) or something to rent at a range. If you happen to live in Maine, I'd be happy to let you shoot some of mine.
I generally don't recommend a 1911 to anyone, anymore, (if I ever even did so, I don't recall). I'm personally fairly comfortable owning and carrying them. I still own four and have owned a total of nine since 1988.
One reason I don't recommend them is the price and what an owner might expect due to the prices paid. I feel there's still a good chance there may be something, even a small thing, which could be in need of "attention" with a brand-new example out-of-the-box.
For some potential 1911-owners, just tightening a grip screw is beyond their limit of maintenance or mechanical ability. I know most, and possibly all, owners' manuals don't describe how to disassemble the slide should an owner want to remove the firing pin for cleaning; replacing the firing pin spring; removing the extractor for cleaning; or adjusting the extractor. For myself, it was 20 years before I figured out I'd need to learn these tasks.
For some folks, the least expensive 1911 will be fine for them (examples might be Armscor aka Rock Island Armory). These owners might put a 50 box of FMJ ammo through it; maybe clean the 1911; then put it away for years; and be happy it functioned 75%-100% during the 50 rounds.
Other owners may only want one with price not-an-issue (think of a "Bob Marvel Nighthawk ~$5000; or any Wilson-Combat 1911 at $2500+).
WHAT TO CONSIDER/LOOK FOR.
Before coming back to a 1911-specific forum, as some here have already suggested, choose some specific models and ask for a consensus or suggestions on whether to buy or not.
In no particular order, try to choose:
-specific brand/brands; consider how warranty issues are handled.
-price range and expect to pay more than, perhaps, a Glock, Springfield XD series, or Smith & Wesson M&P series.
-after shopping & researching a lot, choose some specific features.
-frame material.
-barrel length.
-caliber.
-finish.
-safety (ambi or single side, if that's of importance).
-barrel bushing or bull barrel (bushing-less).
-with or without a firing pin safety.
-there are other factors which may be important to a future buyer.
Going back to PRICE, so many times I've read/heard something like, "For a $1000 gun, this (name your problem) shouldn't have occurred." In fact, budget $2000, and if you come out a bit under after base price of gun; ammo; magazines; cleaning supplies; holsters; more ammo; you're just starting. Read those 1911-related-forums a lot to reduce/negate any future whining once a problem later arises.
OTHER.
It won't matter if it's a $500 1911 or a $5000 1911; either one can get an "idiot scratch" will be like carving a semi-circular scratch as deep as the Grand Canyon into one's 1911 frame and there's no means to 100% repair such a scratch.
Here's an article to read and it really doesn't matter if the buyer isn't really going to use his/her 1911 for "duty use" as any owner should still consider the ownership issues involved in owning/using/carrying a 1911:
http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Choosing-a-1911-for-Duty-Use.html
Read the other associated articles, too, when you get some time before deciding to buy or not.
1911 guns can shoot accurately with its weight and straight-back trigger pull; be ergonomically comfortable when shooting (or can draw blood if too sharp in the wrong spots); be comfortable to carry with its flat/thin shape. There are probably many other pluses I'm not thinking of right now.
One reason I don't recommend them is the price and what an owner might expect due to the prices paid. I feel there's still a good chance there may be something, even a small thing, which could be in need of "attention" with a brand-new example out-of-the-box.
For some potential 1911-owners, just tightening a grip screw is beyond their limit of maintenance or mechanical ability. I know most, and possibly all, owners' manuals don't describe how to disassemble the slide should an owner want to remove the firing pin for cleaning; replacing the firing pin spring; removing the extractor for cleaning; or adjusting the extractor. For myself, it was 20 years before I figured out I'd need to learn these tasks.
For some folks, the least expensive 1911 will be fine for them (examples might be Armscor aka Rock Island Armory). These owners might put a 50 box of FMJ ammo through it; maybe clean the 1911; then put it away for years; and be happy it functioned 75%-100% during the 50 rounds.
Other owners may only want one with price not-an-issue (think of a "Bob Marvel Nighthawk ~$5000; or any Wilson-Combat 1911 at $2500+).
WHAT TO CONSIDER/LOOK FOR.
Before coming back to a 1911-specific forum, as some here have already suggested, choose some specific models and ask for a consensus or suggestions on whether to buy or not.
In no particular order, try to choose:
-specific brand/brands; consider how warranty issues are handled.
-price range and expect to pay more than, perhaps, a Glock, Springfield XD series, or Smith & Wesson M&P series.
-after shopping & researching a lot, choose some specific features.
-frame material.
-barrel length.
-caliber.
-finish.
-safety (ambi or single side, if that's of importance).
-barrel bushing or bull barrel (bushing-less).
-with or without a firing pin safety.
-there are other factors which may be important to a future buyer.
Going back to PRICE, so many times I've read/heard something like, "For a $1000 gun, this (name your problem) shouldn't have occurred." In fact, budget $2000, and if you come out a bit under after base price of gun; ammo; magazines; cleaning supplies; holsters; more ammo; you're just starting. Read those 1911-related-forums a lot to reduce/negate any future whining once a problem later arises.
OTHER.
It won't matter if it's a $500 1911 or a $5000 1911; either one can get an "idiot scratch" will be like carving a semi-circular scratch as deep as the Grand Canyon into one's 1911 frame and there's no means to 100% repair such a scratch.
Here's an article to read and it really doesn't matter if the buyer isn't really going to use his/her 1911 for "duty use" as any owner should still consider the ownership issues involved in owning/using/carrying a 1911:
http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Choosing-a-1911-for-Duty-Use.html
Read the other associated articles, too, when you get some time before deciding to buy or not.
1911 guns can shoot accurately with its weight and straight-back trigger pull; be ergonomically comfortable when shooting (or can draw blood if too sharp in the wrong spots); be comfortable to carry with its flat/thin shape. There are probably many other pluses I'm not thinking of right now.
m&p45acp10+1
New member
You do not need one. You never need the first one. Though somehow you will always need another one once you get that first one.
littlebikerider
New member
Several months ago I bought an ATI 45ACP 5" barrel (government model?) "slightly used". It looked as new to me. Honestly, I bought it because I had never shot a 1911 and it intrigued me, and the sub-400 price point seemed reasonable to me.
I have found it to be a very consistent shooter with decent quality ammo. As for accuracy, with patience I can shoot ragged hole groups at 10 yards. And it really is kind of addictive.
What I personally appreciate about the 1911 is the short pull of the SA trigger. All the centerfire autos I have owned before were DA/SA, and generally had longish trigger pulls and squishy feels. My budget 1911 has a tad bit of creep, but even with that I prefer it to the triggers on the more modern autos. In fact, I would eventually like to get a stainless 1911 Govt chambered in 9mm.
It's big and heavy for a carry gun, I have a 9mm M&P Shield for that. If I want energy I have a .357 mag. If I want to shoot "just because", the 45!
I have found it to be a very consistent shooter with decent quality ammo. As for accuracy, with patience I can shoot ragged hole groups at 10 yards. And it really is kind of addictive.
What I personally appreciate about the 1911 is the short pull of the SA trigger. All the centerfire autos I have owned before were DA/SA, and generally had longish trigger pulls and squishy feels. My budget 1911 has a tad bit of creep, but even with that I prefer it to the triggers on the more modern autos. In fact, I would eventually like to get a stainless 1911 Govt chambered in 9mm.
It's big and heavy for a carry gun, I have a 9mm M&P Shield for that. If I want energy I have a .357 mag. If I want to shoot "just because", the 45!
bamaranger
New member
100 yrs plus
What strikes me most regards the 1911 is that over 100 years later, the pistol and new companies and firms, are still producing them, very close to the original design, and they remain extremely popular. Most of the 1911's contemporaries are long gone. You cannot run out and buy a new Luger P08 or a Webly revolver. But any number of name companies sell new 1911's in a wide variety of models.
The 1911 shoots well likely due to its good trigger pull,and perhaps a degree to its longer 5" sight radius in the standard service model. Reliability has long been touted as high, but that is variable. I've had two, one worked and still does (made in 1917). The other, a steel Commander, from the 70's, is long gone and good luck to whoever has it now.
What strikes me most regards the 1911 is that over 100 years later, the pistol and new companies and firms, are still producing them, very close to the original design, and they remain extremely popular. Most of the 1911's contemporaries are long gone. You cannot run out and buy a new Luger P08 or a Webly revolver. But any number of name companies sell new 1911's in a wide variety of models.
The 1911 shoots well likely due to its good trigger pull,and perhaps a degree to its longer 5" sight radius in the standard service model. Reliability has long been touted as high, but that is variable. I've had two, one worked and still does (made in 1917). The other, a steel Commander, from the 70's, is long gone and good luck to whoever has it now.