1911 vs Ruger P Series
- Thread starter JJ45
- Start date
"Crunchenticker"! LOL, haven't heard that one in a while, Ole Cooper told it like he saw it. We've lost, and are continuing to lose too many of our "greatest generation". I miss those old vets and I came to the conclusion too late that I really enjoyed listening to them. Wish I would have listened more.
I'm leaning towards the 1911 as the pistol I will put the work and expense into and practice to get better at it.
It comes down to both types having their pros and cons, we're fortunate enough to be able to have the choice between the two.
I'm leaning towards the 1911 as the pistol I will put the work and expense into and practice to get better at it.
It comes down to both types having their pros and cons, we're fortunate enough to be able to have the choice between the two.
Much of the work those guys blessed us with (I mean as gunners & trainers) still exists nearly in the form it was delivered, especially with Cooper. It is written and can still be read. I enjoy Skeeter Skelton exactly that way. Pretty much all of what I read from him was after his health had turned and ...later.
RELIABILITY: Colt 1991A1. 1911s sometimes get a bad rap, but Colt builds them right. The P-series have a good reputation for reliability, but the QC isn't always there.
MAINTENANCE: Colt 1991A1 or Springfield Mil-Spec. This is an easy answer, as the P-series are no longer manufactured, and many repairs require shipment back to Ruger, whereas 1911 parts are readily available.
If I had to grab one off a bench to save my life and I had no idea of their history, nor had I fired them before, I would probably grab the P97.
I have a P97. I have a few 1911s.
I love the feel of the 1911s. I love the trigger of the 1911s. I love the history of the 1911s. I love the accuracy potential of the 1911s.
I love the reliability of the P97DC, and am quite pleased with the accuracy [for defensive purposes: not for measured group sizes].
I will occasionally fail to depress the grip safety enough on some 1911s to get it disengaged. I have to work to remember to let my thumb ride the thumb safety on 1911s to keep me from engaging the safety on recoil.
On the P97DC I have to adjust to the weird recoil impulse and the DA/SA transition.
I have only put a few thousand rounds through the P97. No malfunctions-ever.
I have had issues of safety engagement, magazine ejection, failure to feed, and ejection issues with 1911s until I had them 'tuned' just right.
If I were pulling the gun out of a box, new, sight unseen and unfired: no 1911s for my safety.
HOWEVER, if I could customize them first, and work out the bugs: I'd be happy to pick the 1911, especially for competition.
I have a P97. I have a few 1911s.
I love the feel of the 1911s. I love the trigger of the 1911s. I love the history of the 1911s. I love the accuracy potential of the 1911s.
I love the reliability of the P97DC, and am quite pleased with the accuracy [for defensive purposes: not for measured group sizes].
I will occasionally fail to depress the grip safety enough on some 1911s to get it disengaged. I have to work to remember to let my thumb ride the thumb safety on 1911s to keep me from engaging the safety on recoil.
On the P97DC I have to adjust to the weird recoil impulse and the DA/SA transition.
I have only put a few thousand rounds through the P97. No malfunctions-ever.
I have had issues of safety engagement, magazine ejection, failure to feed, and ejection issues with 1911s until I had them 'tuned' just right.
If I were pulling the gun out of a box, new, sight unseen and unfired: no 1911s for my safety.
HOWEVER, if I could customize them first, and work out the bugs: I'd be happy to pick the 1911, especially for competition.
WVMountaineer
New member
Doesn't shooting a 9 MM (Minor) in IDPA handicap you? I was under the impression to be scored for accuracy the same, one would need a 40 or larger caliber (Major). I might be wrong. Just something I have heard.
To the OP, I'd go with a Mil Spec 1911 for the trigger times and such. Hits on targets are what is important. Hits towards the center means more but, hit consistently good, quickly, and you win. You must be more precise when shooting Minor. This is the way I interpret it. I'm open for correction if need be. God Bless
To the OP, I'd go with a Mil Spec 1911 for the trigger times and such. Hits on targets are what is important. Hits towards the center means more but, hit consistently good, quickly, and you win. You must be more precise when shooting Minor. This is the way I interpret it. I'm open for correction if need be. God Bless
Sell the Ruger and buy a Glock 21 or Glock 30. Easy to shoot, reliable, anyone can maintain them and parts are all over the place. Even folks that are admittedly biased against them, run out and buy one as soon as world events make the landscape seem unstable. Best of all, there is a ton of information out there on the web and in books for you to learn virtually everything about maintaining and shooting your Glock.
The Ruger is a dead platform. You asked for maintainability, and the Ruger doesn't have it. It is out of production and Ruger is even selling off their remaining parts last I checked. They are not fully user serviceable either IIRC. It's supposedly very reliable, but I'm not sure that means much coming from it's target demographic, which doesn't really include harsh conditions or high round counts. A reputation of reliability doesn't mean anything if a oddball spring or pin busts leaving you high and dry.
The 1911 is a nice gun, but it's 2015 and the only folks that are still asserting that it is as reliable as more modern guns are severely emotionally attached to the platform. And while their knowledge and experience is valuable and appreciated, it's time to stop pretending that it's not potentially a very finicky gun. It's definitely maintainable as there are more parts out there than you can count, but most take an experienced touch and tools to fit correctly. Lovely gun, everyone should have at least one, but nobody should have to depend on one. If you do have to depend on one, make it a late production Colt or S&W E Series. EDIT: (My own 1911's have actually been flawless, but I'm pretty paranoid about keeping them lubed and clean, and I never attempt to fit or install any aftermarket or replacement part on them myself. I know that I'm an outlier because I certainly don't see other 1911 users sharing my experience, even if they do insist otherwise.)
If you simply are against Glock, your other next best options (without investing a wad of cash) would be a used Sig P220 or S&W 4516 or 4566. Very reliable, serviceable, and shootable. But still are dependent on the factory for some repairs. The Sig factory will refresh any gun you send them for a small fee ($85, cheaper if on sale iirc) by replacing every spring, and replacing any small parts that need it. For a few bucks more you can get refreshed night sights, action jobs, barrel re-crowned, etc, etc. On the other hand, S&W is trying to distance themselves from their steel 45's, but are still working on them.
The Ruger is a dead platform. You asked for maintainability, and the Ruger doesn't have it. It is out of production and Ruger is even selling off their remaining parts last I checked. They are not fully user serviceable either IIRC. It's supposedly very reliable, but I'm not sure that means much coming from it's target demographic, which doesn't really include harsh conditions or high round counts. A reputation of reliability doesn't mean anything if a oddball spring or pin busts leaving you high and dry.
The 1911 is a nice gun, but it's 2015 and the only folks that are still asserting that it is as reliable as more modern guns are severely emotionally attached to the platform. And while their knowledge and experience is valuable and appreciated, it's time to stop pretending that it's not potentially a very finicky gun. It's definitely maintainable as there are more parts out there than you can count, but most take an experienced touch and tools to fit correctly. Lovely gun, everyone should have at least one, but nobody should have to depend on one. If you do have to depend on one, make it a late production Colt or S&W E Series. EDIT: (My own 1911's have actually been flawless, but I'm pretty paranoid about keeping them lubed and clean, and I never attempt to fit or install any aftermarket or replacement part on them myself. I know that I'm an outlier because I certainly don't see other 1911 users sharing my experience, even if they do insist otherwise.)
If you simply are against Glock, your other next best options (without investing a wad of cash) would be a used Sig P220 or S&W 4516 or 4566. Very reliable, serviceable, and shootable. But still are dependent on the factory for some repairs. The Sig factory will refresh any gun you send them for a small fee ($85, cheaper if on sale iirc) by replacing every spring, and replacing any small parts that need it. For a few bucks more you can get refreshed night sights, action jobs, barrel re-crowned, etc, etc. On the other hand, S&W is trying to distance themselves from their steel 45's, but are still working on them.
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1911
Will Ruger not stand behind products even though they have been out of production? Eventually, most of what they produce will be out of production.
The thing about the 1911 is that being a 100+ year old design, there SHOULD be better pistols but there are still opinions that there isn't!
The fact that there will always (never say always?) be parts, services, gunsmiths, books, tutorials, etc. for the 1911 is in it's favor.
After 100+ years I think there are still some elite units that have adopted the 1911 platform but not sure which, if any.
Will Ruger not stand behind products even though they have been out of production? Eventually, most of what they produce will be out of production.
The thing about the 1911 is that being a 100+ year old design, there SHOULD be better pistols but there are still opinions that there isn't!
The fact that there will always (never say always?) be parts, services, gunsmiths, books, tutorials, etc. for the 1911 is in it's favor.
After 100+ years I think there are still some elite units that have adopted the 1911 platform but not sure which, if any.
lee n. field
New member
No company will support obsolete products forever.
I've seen a number of anecdotal recountings of Ruger pronouncing a P-series gun "unfixable". They (so I read) offer an SR series gun of the same chambering, at cost. (Your investment in holster and extra magazines is your problem, I guess.)
They seem to have run out of some parts pretty quickly. It hasn't been that long since they stopped making them.
M9
Interesting, a lot of pistols recommended but no one mentioned the M9. Seems kind of a dead duck lately. I remember when the M9 was selected as our military sidearm. Then it also seemed every cop's holster had one in it. Now it seams that Glocks are the favorite LE gun.
I think the Ruger Ps began with the P85 as Ruger's attempt to win the contract that Beretta won.
Interesting, a lot of pistols recommended but no one mentioned the M9. Seems kind of a dead duck lately. I remember when the M9 was selected as our military sidearm. Then it also seemed every cop's holster had one in it. Now it seams that Glocks are the favorite LE gun.
I think the Ruger Ps began with the P85 as Ruger's attempt to win the contract that Beretta won.
The Beretta is a well made, accurate, and widely supported semi auto pistol. But unless you have a specific interest in it, most folks will agree that there are better choices out there now. It's quite large, has two trigger pulls (both quite good IMO), modern variants have a weak finish, and the safety/decocker is not in an optimal position. Overall, it's a nice gun, and any enthusiast or collector should own one. But I'd stay focused on the more common guns right now. I know it's boring, but keep in mind what the OP is looking for out of the gun. (and to be fair, with the best of intents, we've already gone far off the path of his original question)
I won't even bring up the military trials, as everyone has a different gun counter story of that debacle, and it grows a new twist every time it's told. But the M9 has done it's job for the US Military just fine.
I won't even bring up the military trials, as everyone has a different gun counter story of that debacle, and it grows a new twist every time it's told. But the M9 has done it's job for the US Military just fine.
Most folks don't buy a Beretta 92 variant, or even a Beretta handgun for that matter. The ATF publishes the number of pistols built and imported on a 2 year delay. Beretta is far from a niche player, but the free market speaks, and they are overlooked by the civilian and LE market.
I couldn't have given them more accurate accolades. I'm glad you enjoy them. I do as well, but not enough to keep one in my collection. And, in the terms of the original question, the Beretta isn't part of the discussion really until we include substantial thread drift.
kilimanjaro
New member
For me, the Colt. I have several and not a single failure that I recall.
Don't have one of the Ruger semis, so won't comment on them.
In the true last ditch scenario, I'll take whatever one is the closest to me at the moment, presuming I was silly enough not to bring my Colt and have to pick one up from the ground.
Don't have one of the Ruger semis, so won't comment on them.
In the true last ditch scenario, I'll take whatever one is the closest to me at the moment, presuming I was silly enough not to bring my Colt and have to pick one up from the ground.
dakota1911
New member
At some point I do want to go out on the same day with my P90 I bought back in 91 , which has been 100% reliable and is fairly accurate, but is sort of big and clunky, plus the SA/DA thing.
..and shoot along side a Ruger SR1911CMD. Mainly because the sight radius is about the same on the two pistols.
I have a feeling I know which will win. And a big thing which has been mentioned are the spare parts and mags. Also the ability to really change the grip on the 1911 if you do not like it.
..and shoot along side a Ruger SR1911CMD. Mainly because the sight radius is about the same on the two pistols.
I have a feeling I know which will win. And a big thing which has been mentioned are the spare parts and mags. Also the ability to really change the grip on the 1911 if you do not like it.