I am considering the purchase of a 1911 government model or commander style .45 for home protection and some CCW use. It would probably be a springfield. I love the 1911 format, but worry about reliability as this will be my 1st 1911. I am wondering if a 1911 with a reliability package performed by the smiths at say Clarks can make the stock 1911 as reliable as a Glock, Beretta, Ruger, Sig, etc. (using JHPs)? What are the chances of a stock Springfield or maybe Kimber being JHP reliable out of the box? I don't care about match accuracy - just combat accuracy and complete reliability without frequent maintenance. Is this to much to ask from a 1911? Are the newer designs better? Thanks for the info.
1911 reliability
- Thread starter Ed2000
- Start date
Most production 1911's are very reliable right out of the box. They are not quite as tight as some of the custom guns. However, it does not mean the gun is inaccurate. A Springfield loaded or Kimber Target are excellent starter guns. Shoot the hell out it, if you want something changed, then get a good gunsmith to do it. I recommend Steve Clark. A trigger and reliability job will have you salivating at the mouth with the wonders of a 1911.
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ArmySon
1911 Addiction
"Rangers Lead the Way!"
[This message has been edited by ArmySon (edited April 28, 2000).]
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ArmySon
1911 Addiction
"Rangers Lead the Way!"
[This message has been edited by ArmySon (edited April 28, 2000).]
killer45auto
New member
The only time i have ever had a failure in the 1911 was due to faulty reloads.I have a Para P-13 that has over 15,000 rounds with no problems other than a few very few poor reloads .I can`t say that about my glock 31.I put my para to the test and put 1500 rounds through the gun without cleaning it and had not the first jam,try that with a glock.I gave up and cleaned the para.
kiler45auto
kiler45auto
I believe that most of the myth of unreliability in the 1911 is due to faulty magazines or ammunition that the gun was not set up for.
The 1911 was originally designed to shoot full metal jacket round nose of a certain recoil impulse. Many 1911s of recent manufacture have the feedramps configured for the more modern hollowpoint ammunition. If yours is not, it can be changed by a ‘smith at a very reasonable price. Using ammunition of too high or low a recoil impulse or springs that are improper or fatigued will decrease reliability.
The other, and I believe more common, problem is using poor quality magazines. There is just no substitute for the right magazine. Trying to save money by purchasing cut-rate magazines is false economy. Most 1911 fans seem to go through that phase and we all accumulate a box of flawed mags. After spending way too much on trash, I finally took the advice that more experience shooters gave and purchase top quality magazines.
After I got over the idea that I knew more that John M. Browning, or even Jim Clark, my reliability problems vanished. In the last 6 years of my serious competition I fired over 85,000 rounds of full power SWC handloads through 1911s and had a total of 17 malfunctions of which 4 were not immediately reduced. Eleven of the malfunctions were directly tied to my handloads (I tend to use my brass too long) and should not be attributed to the design or construction of the pistols.
Buy a good quality pistol, best quality magazines, feed it well and enjoy.
[This message has been edited by Maddock (edited April 29, 2000).]
The 1911 was originally designed to shoot full metal jacket round nose of a certain recoil impulse. Many 1911s of recent manufacture have the feedramps configured for the more modern hollowpoint ammunition. If yours is not, it can be changed by a ‘smith at a very reasonable price. Using ammunition of too high or low a recoil impulse or springs that are improper or fatigued will decrease reliability.
The other, and I believe more common, problem is using poor quality magazines. There is just no substitute for the right magazine. Trying to save money by purchasing cut-rate magazines is false economy. Most 1911 fans seem to go through that phase and we all accumulate a box of flawed mags. After spending way too much on trash, I finally took the advice that more experience shooters gave and purchase top quality magazines.
After I got over the idea that I knew more that John M. Browning, or even Jim Clark, my reliability problems vanished. In the last 6 years of my serious competition I fired over 85,000 rounds of full power SWC handloads through 1911s and had a total of 17 malfunctions of which 4 were not immediately reduced. Eleven of the malfunctions were directly tied to my handloads (I tend to use my brass too long) and should not be attributed to the design or construction of the pistols.
Buy a good quality pistol, best quality magazines, feed it well and enjoy.
[This message has been edited by Maddock (edited April 29, 2000).]
ED2000,
I purchased my first (and only) 1911 pistol back in November of 1999. Its a Springfield Loaded stainless fullsize 1911. (PX-9151). I have ONLY shot my handloads in it (and I'm a beginner), and it has only had 2 failure to feed (due to my poor reloads). I have put ~1200 rounds through it. Flat points and SWC only. Its my favorite .45 (even over my SIG P220..which BTW has failed to feed MUCH more than 2 times), and I shoot the SA 1911 SO much more accurately than I do my SIG. The slide to frame fit of mine is VERY tight with no detectable play whatsoever. The only thing that I don't really like, if I had to nitpick, is the rather sharp edges on the slide and frame, and the rear Novak sight that like to come loose after ~100 rnds or so. Maybe one day I will have it dehorned...but since I don't carry it, its not that important right now. Good luck!
Nathan..
I purchased my first (and only) 1911 pistol back in November of 1999. Its a Springfield Loaded stainless fullsize 1911. (PX-9151). I have ONLY shot my handloads in it (and I'm a beginner), and it has only had 2 failure to feed (due to my poor reloads). I have put ~1200 rounds through it. Flat points and SWC only. Its my favorite .45 (even over my SIG P220..which BTW has failed to feed MUCH more than 2 times), and I shoot the SA 1911 SO much more accurately than I do my SIG. The slide to frame fit of mine is VERY tight with no detectable play whatsoever. The only thing that I don't really like, if I had to nitpick, is the rather sharp edges on the slide and frame, and the rear Novak sight that like to come loose after ~100 rnds or so. Maybe one day I will have it dehorned...but since I don't carry it, its not that important right now. Good luck!
Nathan..
Nobody else mentioned this but when you buy magazines, consider Wilson mags. They are arguably the best. I prefer the 7 rounders over the 8's.
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ArmySon
1911 Addiction
"Rangers Lead the Way!"
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ArmySon
1911 Addiction
"Rangers Lead the Way!"
ArmySon--
That's not the first time I've read you tout the 7 round Wilson mags over the 8 rounders. Why is that? Having just bought my first 1911 recently, I'm anxious to take advantage of your experience.
Thanks!
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Triggers exist to be pulled... again and again.
That's not the first time I've read you tout the 7 round Wilson mags over the 8 rounders. Why is that? Having just bought my first 1911 recently, I'm anxious to take advantage of your experience.
Thanks!
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Triggers exist to be pulled... again and again.
Patrick Graham
Moderator
1911's are reliable with the right mix of mags and ammo. I've had some 185 grain semi wadcutters jam on me. I've also had some cheap mags that would break at the shoulder causing a jam. If you stick with quality mags and 230 grain fmj out of a quality gun (say.. kimber or the likes) you will have no problems.....
Gremlin,
I had several Wilson 8 round mags that caused several problems in a couple of my 1911's. When I switched to a Wilson 7 rounder, problems went away. So I called up Wilson's customer rep, the guy finally admitted that there are "some" problems with 8 rounders. There were also other members who had problems with Wilson 8 round mags. Then again, there are many people who had no problems using them.
JMB designed the 1911 to function with 7 rounds. That's what my own 1911's tell me. I'm not gonna ignore it.
My suggestion is, if you have NO problems with your 8 round mag, don't change a thing. Clean them regularly and switch carry/shooting mags regularly and you shouldn't have any problems.
Clean your gun on a regular basis. Fire 1000 rounds down range and you'll have yourself a winner.
I'm not going to say that the 7 rounders are the best, just personal experience on my part. Whatever you use is up to you. After all, it's your gun. Take care!
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ArmySon
1911 Addiction
"Rangers Lead the Way!"
I had several Wilson 8 round mags that caused several problems in a couple of my 1911's. When I switched to a Wilson 7 rounder, problems went away. So I called up Wilson's customer rep, the guy finally admitted that there are "some" problems with 8 rounders. There were also other members who had problems with Wilson 8 round mags. Then again, there are many people who had no problems using them.
JMB designed the 1911 to function with 7 rounds. That's what my own 1911's tell me. I'm not gonna ignore it.
My suggestion is, if you have NO problems with your 8 round mag, don't change a thing. Clean them regularly and switch carry/shooting mags regularly and you shouldn't have any problems.
Clean your gun on a regular basis. Fire 1000 rounds down range and you'll have yourself a winner.
I'm not going to say that the 7 rounders are the best, just personal experience on my part. Whatever you use is up to you. After all, it's your gun. Take care!
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ArmySon
1911 Addiction
"Rangers Lead the Way!"
Do you guys have experience with Chip McCormick Mags?
I've sorta been wondering which ones to buy...they offer the 8-rd. 'shooting star' mag in stainless for about $14.00, but their 'power mag' is about 50% more money.
Differences? I bought my first 1911 recently and would like to avoid mistakes in this area--will defer to your expertise.
I've sorta been wondering which ones to buy...they offer the 8-rd. 'shooting star' mag in stainless for about $14.00, but their 'power mag' is about 50% more money.
Differences? I bought my first 1911 recently and would like to avoid mistakes in this area--will defer to your expertise.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by weegee:
I've sorta been wondering which ones to buy...they offer the 8-rd. 'shooting star' mag in stainless for about $14.00, but their 'power mag' is about 50% more money.[/quote]
The shooting stars usually get mixed reviews. Some people have bad experiences with them. While others have no problems. I only have two shooting stars (both 8 rounders) and never had any problems. Then again, I haven't shot a lot of rounds through either.
The Pro Mag on the other hand is very good in most people's eyes. I bought a 10 rounder to try out. With over 500 rounds through it, not one hiccup.
Regardless whether you buy the shooting star of pro mag, I highly suggest you buy the ones with baseplates. Shooting schools, ISPC, etc will beat the hell out of the non basepads.
I also bought the conversion kit for .38 Super from Brownells. So far so good
Whatever magazines you decide to buy, make sure you fire atleast 300-500 rounds through it before you consider it a carry mag.
Note: Your results may very.
I've sorta been wondering which ones to buy...they offer the 8-rd. 'shooting star' mag in stainless for about $14.00, but their 'power mag' is about 50% more money.[/quote]
The shooting stars usually get mixed reviews. Some people have bad experiences with them. While others have no problems. I only have two shooting stars (both 8 rounders) and never had any problems. Then again, I haven't shot a lot of rounds through either.
The Pro Mag on the other hand is very good in most people's eyes. I bought a 10 rounder to try out. With over 500 rounds through it, not one hiccup.
Regardless whether you buy the shooting star of pro mag, I highly suggest you buy the ones with baseplates. Shooting schools, ISPC, etc will beat the hell out of the non basepads.
I also bought the conversion kit for .38 Super from Brownells. So far so good
Whatever magazines you decide to buy, make sure you fire atleast 300-500 rounds through it before you consider it a carry mag.
Note: Your results may very.
I believe the magazines are the most critical link in the reliability chain. My 1911's, including a pre-'70 Commander are very reliable with Wilson 7 or 8 round mags. Less so with others. My Shooting Star mags have worked since I changed to Wolff springs which also dropped the capacity to seven rounds.
Remember to keep the weapon clean, going beyond the field strip periodically! Recently I had a first-time fail to extract from a 1991 with 5K-6K rounds through it. I was embarrased when the guy at the shop checked the extracter, and found no problem except it was pretty gunked up. I've had 1911's long enough to know better, too.
Also, some of the more closely fitted pistols, such as the Kimber Gold match or the Gold Cup will be less forgiving of some not quite perfect reloads, and also of some of the less expensive import ammo. It may feed fine, but not allow the slide to go fully into battery.
Remember to keep the weapon clean, going beyond the field strip periodically! Recently I had a first-time fail to extract from a 1991 with 5K-6K rounds through it. I was embarrased when the guy at the shop checked the extracter, and found no problem except it was pretty gunked up. I've had 1911's long enough to know better, too.
Also, some of the more closely fitted pistols, such as the Kimber Gold match or the Gold Cup will be less forgiving of some not quite perfect reloads, and also of some of the less expensive import ammo. It may feed fine, but not allow the slide to go fully into battery.
I carried 1911's for 26 years, both professionally and as a civilian. I've had and seen both custom guns and guns straight from the box work flawlessly. I have a 1959 vintage Government Model that was lightly customized (sights, trigger, etc) that has never malfunctioned. I have a LW Officers ACP that had some initial problems but since mild smithing (new bushing, guide rod & spring) hasn't failed since. My sister has a stock 1991A1 Commander that has digested 2-3 thousand rounds without a single burp.
They are all individual pieces. Most work superbly well, fed good ammo through good magazines. That's where the 1911 got its reputation in the first place. Where the idea that they are unreliable comes from is a mystery to me.
Dave T (PCSD Ret)
They are all individual pieces. Most work superbly well, fed good ammo through good magazines. That's where the 1911 got its reputation in the first place. Where the idea that they are unreliable comes from is a mystery to me.
Dave T (PCSD Ret)
If you get a loaded pistol, you can avoid a lot of the problems. Of course you won't have much fun customizing it to your likes and you won't learn as much about the pistol. As far as mags, I like wilson mags, but I find they are very reliable in my Kimber and not in my colt officer ltwt. The shooting stars work well in my full 1927 and officer model, but not in my Kimber. The only mags that work in all three are mec-gar top of line mags. Just my experience. Others will vary.
[This message has been edited by ak9 (edited April 30, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by ak9 (edited April 30, 2000).]
ak9: I will most likely get the Springfield mil-spec. The only things I want different from the base gun would be an extended thumb safety (maybe ambidextrous) and possibly a commander hammer (doesn't that reduce the likelihood of hammer bite?). I just want a self defense weapon that functions with good JHPs. Do the "loaded" models really have work on them that makes them more reliable or simply more "user friendly" (ie: extended slide release, sights, etc.)? Also, thanks to everyone for your comments. I am new to this list, but I think I like it
Flat points and SWC only.
how do you avoid lead buildup in the barrel?
i shot about 50 rounds of LRN through my kimber compact when i first got it, and i didn't think i'd ever get the lead out.
now its only factory ammo.
but, i'd like to shoot reloads through it, if i could just keep it clean
how do you avoid lead buildup in the barrel?
i shot about 50 rounds of LRN through my kimber compact when i first got it, and i didn't think i'd ever get the lead out.
now its only factory ammo.
but, i'd like to shoot reloads through it, if i could just keep it clean
fridge21, this is my cleaning regimen after shooting lead reloads: a patch of Hoppe's #9 followed by five swipes with a brush and three dry patches; repeat; three patches of Kleenbore lead wipes; a patch of Hoppes #9 again followed by two dry patches. All the lead is gone. And I look at my bore and chamber with an 8x magnifier. This is a bit off-thread, I realize, but thought I'd pass it on.
Dick
Dick