1911 people

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dal22ses

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I purchased my first 1911 a few months ago and have put about 1000 rds through it since. Is it normal to have such a learning curve shooting this style. It's an officers model 1911. For awhile everything was low left then I researched and talked with a few people and changed my grip and started getting great groups but low at about 10-15 ft. Moved out today about 20 feet and I'm still low but great groups.
My first shot from the gun is usually on point in center mass then the shots begin to creep down? I have watched a ton of videos and try to practice everything they show but after my first shot everything drops low? And that is from as close to 5' out to 25 yards? I don't know but to me after 1000 rds I would like better results?
Is this a normal learning curve? I'm pretty sure it's shooter error since my first shots are centered.
Thanks
 
Semi-auto pistols often have a quirk about the first round possibly hitting a different spot than all others that follow simply because a human cannot put a round in to firing position exactly the same way that a pistol does repeatedly.

You can see easily if this phenomenon affects your shooting, too. Simply... load your pistol as you always do but fire a round down range and completely off the target so that your first aimed shot is the second shot. And if you count shots, get in to the habit of replacing your magazine with another before you lock it open on empty.

Will this fix what ails you? I don't know, but you can throw it in your bag of tricks.
 
Your first shot on the money,not the pistol then.
You are changing something after that,trigger finger jerk is likely the cause.
This is not an M1911 issue it happens when shooters try to discharge the firearm
too fast,rapid fire is a tricky skill that requires a lot of practice.If you think of every subsequent shot as being the first one then you should be ok.
Breath,Relax,Aim,Slack,Squeeze.Until it becomes natural then you try faster.
good luck
 
Also, an Officer's model does not feel like a standard 5" gun and is a tad more difficult to shoot well...
 
I've been shooting Glocks for 11 years which I figured was the reason I was having some issues but I have put a lot of lead down range at 6" targets and typically 80% of the shoots are scattered when I shoot from
25 yards but all in paper. When I move into self defense range everything is low in a group at that point
 
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The solution is somewhere in your fundamentals...probably the grip / not high enough on the gun, too strong with one hand, milking the grip .....hard to tell....
 
I will just keep practicing then. my first shot is typically centered so like you mentioned polyphemus it is most likely me jerking the trigger. i do tend to shoot to fast as well,i will have to slow my self down. I also heard that the officers models are harder to shoot because of their design. Maybe i should slow down take a shot then realign and shoot again,go back to basics. I was losing faith in this gun so i hope this renews my love and faith for it.
 
Really impossible to say what is going on without seeing you shoot. You could have someone take a video of you shooting and post a link or just have an experienced 1911 shooter watch you shoot the gun.

As others have stated there is most likely something in your technique that is causing the issues but without seeing you shooting it is almost impossible to pin point.
 
I've shot 5" 1911s for many years, and also shoot a 3.5" model, but the latter gets maybe 10% as many rounds.
I feel like I have to teach myself to shoot over again, when transitioning to the short gun.
The smaller gun is lighter, the shorter sight radius amplifies sighting errors, the grip does not fill my hand as completely, the gun cycles faster, it recoils harder, etc.
If I pay attention to fundamentals, I'm back on target quickly, but I sometimes find myself cheating, like aiming high-left on strong-hand shots, as I know my grip and trigger control are not perfect so I'll jerk the rounds toward 4:00.
I go through this every time, even though I was shooting 1911s of some type, once or twice a week for fifteen years.
Dry-fire drills will help. Even something very basic, like aiming at a blank wall, concentrating on holding the sights motionless while breaking the "shot", can reveal what's going on, as you can see where the sights are going as you squeeze.
 
I bought this 3.5" for carry reasons so as long s I'm on paper in good grouping between 10-15 feet I'm happy but i think i might look into afull size 1911one day.until i become comfortable with this 1911 though i think i will leave it in the safe and carry my glock
 
This is a picture of about 10' away slow shooting. Not sure what I did here but I just couldn't replicate it after this target.
20140929_092040_zpsa78khjjq.jpg




This picture is from 15 yards out slow shooting but for some reason all over compared to the previous picture. Both targets are 5.5" targets. As you can see I had a few low left in the card board.
20140930_142736_zpstapobdj7.jpg
 
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176420

See especially posts #4 and #6

Muscle memory ... it's real. Try an experiment. Unload your 1911. Check it to be sure it's unloaded. Check it again.

With the pistol in your strong hand, pick an object across the room. Face it more or less as it you were going to shoot it. let the pistol hang down at your side, or in a "low ready" position. Now ... close your eyes, bring the pistol up as if you intended to shoot the object, hold the position and open your eyes.

If the pistol isn't pointing at the target, your own muscles are working against you. Try it again, using the Glock. Better? If so, then the difference in grip angle is the culprit.

Illustration:

20120307_grip_angle-300x199.jpg


See how the 1911 grip angle is closer to vertical? So take a 1911 and hold the grip at the same angle as a Glock, and the barrel is now 6 degrees below horizontal.

It might interest you to know that the original M1911 had what we know today as a "straight" mainspring housing. Soldiers of that day were transitioning to this new-fangled "automatic" pistol from revolvers, and may of them complained that the new gun "shot too low." To address this, around 1927 the Ordnance Department came out with the M1911A1, which had an arched mainspring housing. That supposedly caused the pistol to shoot higher.

Personally, I prefer the straight mainspring housing. But -- I rarely shoot anything other than a 1911 (or a Ruger Single Six), so for me years of muscle memory results in the 1911 with straight mainspring housing pointing "naturally." I'm sure if I were to pick up a Glock and try the same drill I described above, I'd be way off the mark. When I do it with a 1911 ... I'm spot on.

My advice? Dry fire. A lot.
 
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Wvsig that is where i got most of my useful tips too get it on paper. Thank you.


Aguila; i am seriously going to write that down and practice that.thanks.

Is it safe to say that the officers model is not really designed for long range use like over 15 yards - 25 yards? I know the full size 1911 is good for 25yards but what about the 3.5"?
 
An Officer's model 1911 is not a target gun - it is a defensive pistol. I do most of my defensive pistol shooting at 3-10 yards as that's the likely range I'll need it...
 
Well that certainly makes me feel better. I just assuned it was meant to shoot at longer distances like its 5" brother. I also compared out too my glock which i shouldn't have done.
 
Who knows what distance the Officers ACP was "designed" for? I don't think it was designed for any particular distance, I think it was designed to be a smaller package than a full-sized M1911A1.

Mechanically, there is nothing given up by the shorter barrel. A number of years ago I had to shoot a qualifying target at 25 yards, witnessed by an NRA instructor, as part of my application for an out-of-state carry permit. At the time I had just purchased a Para-Ordnance 12.45 LDA. This is the same 3-1/2" barrel and slide as the Colt Officers ACP, but on a double stack frame. When I shot the target I had probably fewer than 500 rounds through the pistol. I know I qualified easily, and my fuzzy recollection says I shot 278 out of 300. (Ah, how I miss the days when I could see!)

That said, I know the testers who write for the M1911.ORG on-line magazine test full-size 1911s at 25 yards, and compacts (3" and 3-1/2") at 25 feet, for just the reason given -- they are self defense weapons, not target pistols.
 
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If your shots are in the center but low, your wrist is breaking down...usually with anticipation of the trigger break. Do some dry practice making sure the sights are in exactly the same place after the trigger break as before the break. I think you will see a big improvement.

If you exercise proper technique, the size of the 1911 should make no difference with marksmanship. Hope this tidbit of info helps.
 
Muscle memory is real. I developed bad habits with my first handgun that took 7 years to unlearn. If you have a decade of glock use, I think grip angle is a major component. Don't recall caliber of glock listed, but if you went from 9mm to .45acp, flinch/anticipation could be it too.

Others have recommended dry fire. Good advice. Also, do some cap and dummy drills at the range.

Lastly, understand ballistics. IIRC, a .45acp gun sighted in for 25 yards will be rising to the point of aim along the path. Thus, @7 yards a properly sighted gun will hit something like 1/2 inch lower than point of aim. And sight height is set usually based on a specific load: most .45acp guns sight presuppose 230gr ball. 185gr hp will fly differently. Play with the winchester ballistics calculator to see what i am saying.

Most likely causes: grip angle and/or anticipation/flinch.
 
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