I have a built 1911, It has a Essex Arms frame, Colt slide, Colt 70 series barrel, and Guts. When I fire it at a Fast rate, the hammer drops to half cock, after about the 3rd round. I'm thinking the Sear, or the Catch on the hammer are worn. Has anyone delt with this problem? I've had this pistol for over 30 years, & I've shot it a lot. It has just recently started doing this. Sometime when you turn the slide loose with the lock it will do this. Am I on the right track?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
1911 drops to Half cock
- Thread starter Floyd1966
- Start date
qmasterarms
Inactive
Hammer follow through. Can be tested for in known empty gun by racking slide and cocking hammer. Then remove empty magazine. Now press slide release (this is not something to do regularly, just to check for hammer follow through).
If hammer drops into half cock pistol has hammer follow through. This is caused by sear and hammer engagement surfaces needing to be corrected or replacement of sear (generally hammer engagement is ok but could be a problem too). If it passes this test issue could be sear bounce caused again by hammer/sear engagement surface issues and weak main spring. Take to competent gunsmith to correct especially if EDC.
Do not recut engagement surfaces without a jig. You need at a minimum a 1911 sear/hammer jig to fix this along with proper stones, which can be purchased at Brownells. If you have not done this before you may also need a sear jig to cut the initial edge on the sear. Available from Brownells and made by Ed Brown.
THE GUNSLINGER
If hammer drops into half cock pistol has hammer follow through. This is caused by sear and hammer engagement surfaces needing to be corrected or replacement of sear (generally hammer engagement is ok but could be a problem too). If it passes this test issue could be sear bounce caused again by hammer/sear engagement surface issues and weak main spring. Take to competent gunsmith to correct especially if EDC.
Do not recut engagement surfaces without a jig. You need at a minimum a 1911 sear/hammer jig to fix this along with proper stones, which can be purchased at Brownells. If you have not done this before you may also need a sear jig to cut the initial edge on the sear. Available from Brownells and made by Ed Brown.
THE GUNSLINGER
Last edited:
Ok, It doesn't do it every time, 4 out of every 10 times. My dad and I built this thing over 30 years ago. It hasn't been that far apart since. I keep it very clean and oiled, but I shoot it a lot, since it's my carry piece It needs to be fixed. I thought that was where the problem lies. Thank for your help. I sure hate to have to put a new sear, because it has such a sweet trigger pull!! I will have to fix the problem though.Thanks again.
qmasterarms
Inactive
Ok, It doesn't do it every time, 4 out of every 10 times. My dad and I built this thing over 30 years ago. It hasn't been that far apart since. I keep it very clean and oiled, but I shoot it a lot, since it's my carry piece It needs to be fixed. I thought that was where the problem lies. Thank for your help. I sure hate to have to put a new sear, because it has such a sweet trigger pull!! I will have to fix the problem though.Thanks again.
With the proper jigs, and if the sear/hammer engagement surfaces are not too worn, you should be able to fix without a new sear or hammer. It must pass the hammer follow through test consistently. If so much as one failure out of ten occurs the problem is not fixed. Make sure you do not cut sear with negative hammer hook engagement angle. Even though it may feel great, it's not safe/reliable especially in EDC. You need the jigs to do this, and something to magnify your work so you can see what you have done, to also visually confirm. In the jig you should not have the sear slip from the hammer hooks even with strong finger pressure. It should hold engagement even under the tension. Remember to remove material slowly and test so u don't ruin the parts. Work on the sear first and see if you can fix it by just adjusting sear engagement alone. Sears are cheap but hammers are not so inexpensive.
THE GUNSLINGER
Last edited:
qmasterarms
Inactive
I like a 2 -2.5 lb trigger pull. I used to get my parts from Brownell's are they still around? I will have to do some research on where to get a Jig. I haven't worked on a trigger assembly in a few years, but I still have my tools, Honing stones, Jeweler's files.....
I am a FFL gunsmith and 2-2.5 trigger pull on an EDC is too light on a 1911 for several reasons. If the action work is done properly a 4.5-5 # trigger pull can easily feel like 3 # but measures 5# on a scale. To do this 1911 needs to be optimized as a total system. These are my thoughts. Brownells and MidwayUSA have the jigs.
THE GUNSLINGER
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I agree with the above - 2 to 2-1/2 pounds is too light. That's why Colt added a couple of extra parts in the Gold Cup model -- to prevent exactly what you are experiencing.
Your sear tip and/or hammer hooks may have worn over the years. Brownells (yes, they are still around) sells a square stone specifically for dressing hammer hooks. You may also have cut the hooks too shallow when you built the pistol, or you may have taken too much off the tip of the sear.
Your sear tip and/or hammer hooks may have worn over the years. Brownells (yes, they are still around) sells a square stone specifically for dressing hammer hooks. You may also have cut the hooks too shallow when you built the pistol, or you may have taken too much off the tip of the sear.
Typically, something is hanging up. First detail strip and look at your hammer and sear mating on the outside of the gun. If the hammer surface aligns to the sear surface or pretty close, go ahead and install.
Install the sear spring and main spring housing assy. Leave the safeties out. Hold the hammer back and feel the weight of sear spring initially whe the trigger bar/disconnector is in play and the increase when the sear moves. The weight should double when the sear moves. Also check that the sear smartly snaps into position against the hammer.
Last, put marksalot on hammer and sear surfaces. Then assemble, dry fire 5 times, then disassemble and look at under magnification.
Install the sear spring and main spring housing assy. Leave the safeties out. Hold the hammer back and feel the weight of sear spring initially whe the trigger bar/disconnector is in play and the increase when the sear moves. The weight should double when the sear moves. Also check that the sear smartly snaps into position against the hammer.
Last, put marksalot on hammer and sear surfaces. Then assemble, dry fire 5 times, then disassemble and look at under magnification.
Some time back we had a very productive thread around carrying guns that had modification,including a trigger job.One of our TFL legal experts left a Gold Nugget (IMO).
If you ever use your firearm in a SD shooting,there will likely be a firearms expert in court.It might be the police dept armorer.
It was posted that if your trigger on a 1911 was under (IIRC) 4 1/2 lbs,the armorer's testimony would be that it was irresponsible to carry that 1911. A cop would not be permitted to.It MIGHT work out for you if you had a reliable 4 3/4 lb trigger,the armorer MAY say your firearm was sound.That can be very important,especially in the upcoming CIVIL trial you will face.
So,my point is,if this is a carry gun,forget about preserving the sweet trigger pull. Go for a 4 1/2 to 5 lb "duty/carry" pull. You can still have a very nice trigger,and you can still shoot the gun very accurately.
The 1911 is just not a good "DIY project gun". Not unless you choose to buy the Kuhnhausen books,read and study,and gain other demo support. The smith with knowledge and experience and proper toolsmust fit a series of parts so they work together as a choreographed dance,and the price of screwing up may be life and death.
If you want to learn the 1911,then learn the 1911. It doesn't take a superhuman,it does take understanding and perfection.
Free hand filing/stoning? Forget it. You must invest in the jigs and stones to do it.You must have full contact across the hammer/sear,you must have the proper angle relationship,and an .018 minimum engagement.
While the originalColt quality parts are good stuff,for my time and money,I'll buy a duty/carry grade kit of a matched hammer/sear/disconnect/sear spring from a quality supplier such as Cylinder and Slide (There are others)Ballpark $125.
All of the surfaces in question are precision ground,and USUALLY work properly drop in...but nothing is fool-proof drop in on a 1911.If you do elect to try this route DON"T DO ANYTHING TO THE PARTS!! and for Willie sake DON"T GET YOUR DREMEL OUT!! NOT!! NO!! I get my "shiny polish"on my sear surface by using a black surgical grade Arkansas stone that has been dressed flat on a diamond plate...that and my Marvel sear jig.The geometry remains precise.
If you assemble it and its not PERFECT,STOP!! Take it to the smith.
I'd also pop for a C+S or Brown or Wilson or other quality set of pins and springs.
IF you have a good smith available,ask about a price to install and and safety check.
If you have no smith,SOMETIMES you can just replace all those parts and get pretty good results.
If you balk at his price,check price on a trigger pull guage,and look at Brownells and price all the jigs and stones,the books,etc.You will spend a lot.
That's just MY way to do it.A good smith with the tools and skills might just dress up the original hammer notch and sear,and maybe replace and tune the sear spring. Maybe.
Good luck,and no matter what,it has to be 100% safe.Right now,"Red Tag" it out of service till its 100% I suggest you testfire with one round in the mag for several shots,then only two.
If you gun goes full auto,its better.
If you ever use your firearm in a SD shooting,there will likely be a firearms expert in court.It might be the police dept armorer.
It was posted that if your trigger on a 1911 was under (IIRC) 4 1/2 lbs,the armorer's testimony would be that it was irresponsible to carry that 1911. A cop would not be permitted to.It MIGHT work out for you if you had a reliable 4 3/4 lb trigger,the armorer MAY say your firearm was sound.That can be very important,especially in the upcoming CIVIL trial you will face.
So,my point is,if this is a carry gun,forget about preserving the sweet trigger pull. Go for a 4 1/2 to 5 lb "duty/carry" pull. You can still have a very nice trigger,and you can still shoot the gun very accurately.
The 1911 is just not a good "DIY project gun". Not unless you choose to buy the Kuhnhausen books,read and study,and gain other demo support. The smith with knowledge and experience and proper toolsmust fit a series of parts so they work together as a choreographed dance,and the price of screwing up may be life and death.
If you want to learn the 1911,then learn the 1911. It doesn't take a superhuman,it does take understanding and perfection.
Free hand filing/stoning? Forget it. You must invest in the jigs and stones to do it.You must have full contact across the hammer/sear,you must have the proper angle relationship,and an .018 minimum engagement.
While the originalColt quality parts are good stuff,for my time and money,I'll buy a duty/carry grade kit of a matched hammer/sear/disconnect/sear spring from a quality supplier such as Cylinder and Slide (There are others)Ballpark $125.
All of the surfaces in question are precision ground,and USUALLY work properly drop in...but nothing is fool-proof drop in on a 1911.If you do elect to try this route DON"T DO ANYTHING TO THE PARTS!! and for Willie sake DON"T GET YOUR DREMEL OUT!! NOT!! NO!! I get my "shiny polish"on my sear surface by using a black surgical grade Arkansas stone that has been dressed flat on a diamond plate...that and my Marvel sear jig.The geometry remains precise.
If you assemble it and its not PERFECT,STOP!! Take it to the smith.
I'd also pop for a C+S or Brown or Wilson or other quality set of pins and springs.
IF you have a good smith available,ask about a price to install and and safety check.
If you have no smith,SOMETIMES you can just replace all those parts and get pretty good results.
If you balk at his price,check price on a trigger pull guage,and look at Brownells and price all the jigs and stones,the books,etc.You will spend a lot.
That's just MY way to do it.A good smith with the tools and skills might just dress up the original hammer notch and sear,and maybe replace and tune the sear spring. Maybe.
Good luck,and no matter what,it has to be 100% safe.Right now,"Red Tag" it out of service till its 100% I suggest you testfire with one round in the mag for several shots,then only two.
If you gun goes full auto,its better.
Last edited:
I like a 2 -2.5 lb trigger pull. I used to get my parts from Brownell's are they still around? I will have to do some research on where to get a Jig. I haven't worked on a trigger assembly in a few years, but I still have my tools, Honing stones, Jeweler's files.....
I'll join the chorus.
2-2.5 pound trigger pull weight is a good trigger pull weight for a dedicated bulls eye gun. It is a poor trigger pull weight for anything else though.
Since you haven't worked on a gun in some years, did not know the source of your issue or what to call it, don't know where to locate a jig, don't know if Brownell's is still around, and think what you do about trigger pull weights, I'm gonna suggest you talk with a gunsmith before you take on any work on your piece. By talk I mean walk into a place where a smith works and show him the gun and discuss the issue with him. If you live 50 miles away from one then make an appointment. Looking at things on the internet ain't enough. It helps, but is not enough. Then plan out what you want to do.
There are a ton of vids on You Tube on this issue and others. Many of them are worth little. Some are by reputable smiths.
Here are a couple of links to help...
http://www.brownells.com/guntech/index.htm?avs|Make_3=1911
http://www.brownells.com/parts/1911/index.htm
https://www.midwayusa.com/1911/br?cid=8806
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=gunsmithing+the+1911&userItemsPerPage=48
tipoc
If the action work is done properly a 4.5-5 # trigger pull can easily feel like 3 # but measures 5# on a scale.
I sit in the chair next to Tipoc in the "too light" choir. And I fully agree with the above quote, too. I care a lot more about smoothness and crispness than the scale weight of a trigger. Good characteristics like that make a trigger feel lighter and easier to use accurately.
T.Oheir
HiBC, spaces after punctuation.Proper decorum on this forum prevents me from offering a clear and succinct reply.
Since you offered me unsolicited advice,I will return the favor.
Keep your nose out of my business. If I want your advice on grammar,spelling,or punctuation,I'll ask. You are rude and condescending.
Item two,even some highly respected Mods have commented on your tendency to offer very authoritative posts that are just flat wrong.You really do the folks asking questions a disservice by misleading them. At least preface your disinformation with "IMO" rather than representing it as fact.
In the future,you might do enough research to find out if you know what you are talking about before you post.
Thank you,have a nice day.
Last edited:
OK easy guys, I know that none of you all know me, So I over exaggerated the 2 1/2 lbs. I shoot long range with my Remington 700's and I have all those triggers set between 2.5 and 3 lbs. That is a good Rifle # for me. Not so much for other people. I like a Smooth, Crisp pull, with minimum creep. I had a FFL Gunsmith teach me how to work on triggers actions. He has since passed on. I couldn't think of the Correct Term for "My problem". I did know what , and where the problem lies. I am not a beginner, but there are things I need to learn. I've had this pistol since I was 16, and I'm 51 now. I'm a perfectionist, when I work on something. The Funny thing about taking this to a Repeatable Gunsmith, is the last one I took something too, I knew more than he did. LOL!! I understand what you guys are telling me. I thought I would ask on here to see what you all thought. Thank you guys for your Answers Very helpful. I have dug out mu 1911 Bible, and looked in my Brownell book, witch is where the parts came from back in the 80's. When my dad and I built this from a New raw frame, I did all of the fitting of the frame, to the slide, and I did all of the assembly, My dad and his Friend the Gunsmith checked and double checked my work. I have replaced a few things over the years, Barrel, Barrel Bushing, pins.... I'm sure that I don't know every thing about 1911's, but since I have 7 of them and a ACE, I'm not a newby. It has just been a few years since, I have worked on a 1911. I never claimed to be a professional Gunsmith, either. I would love to be, though. Thanks for the Links
Last edited:
I've retire the Built 1911 Essex/Colt for Carrying, for now I broke out my Ithaca 1911-A1 US Arny made in 1945. It is my next least expensive, next to my 70's Gold Cup that Fires twice, when you pull the trigger. That's a question for another day. LOL!! Thanks Guys for your help
Sounds like you have multiple guns with sear/hammer issues. Sometimes it's worth going to a good gunsmith. I have a 1948 Colt Commercial Gov't that was built by King's Gun Works back in the '70s. It started firing in bursts. Sent it to John Harrison, he gave the gun a thorough inspection, replaced the hammer, sear, and disconnector, and gave it a general tune up - action job, springs, etc. - and pronounced it ready for duty. I felt his price was reasonable for what he did and I could not be more confident that the job was done correctly.
Yes I do, Thank you for the info. I have ordered a jig, and a new sear. the hammer looks really good but the sear has a rounded edge. I took it completely apart and Cleaned everything extremely good. I put it back together, and it made the problem worse. So I guess the dirt and crud that was in, and around the sear, was actually, helping me LOL!! Oh well, it's in the safe with the gold cup, till another day. I'm looking for a Repeatable Gunsmith, in my area (East TN) that knows what he's doing, on my 1911's.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
If you were willing to travel to the Raleigh area, I'd suggest getting in touch with 1911Tuner (who occasionally posts here). I don't think there's anyone alive who knows 1911s better than Tuner.
yep that tuner guy knows the 1911 back and forth,,,none better
just a thought,,,if you replace any of the ignition parts,,,dont be surprised if you need a new thumb safety to go along with the rest of the stuff,,,,changing hammer sear relationship could change how the thumb safety works,,,make sure you check that for proper function too
my .02
ocharry
just a thought,,,if you replace any of the ignition parts,,,dont be surprised if you need a new thumb safety to go along with the rest of the stuff,,,,changing hammer sear relationship could change how the thumb safety works,,,make sure you check that for proper function too
my .02
ocharry