Mike Davies
New member
Good point...I don't see many box-stock 1911's being used in IPSC, where reliablility is paramount. Not only did John Browning keep improving his brain-child, so has John Q. Public. <g>
1911 a Jam-O-Matic?
- Thread starter Mike Irwin
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Mike Irwin
Staff
Well Mike Davies! Why haven't you been coming around lately?
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Mike Davies
New member
Oh...I'm here...<g>
The 'reliability' issue of automatic pistols, and the 1911 in particular, is quite a contentious issue, no doubt about that....as a relative newcomer to handgunning, I can only relate my own recent experiences. At the last (US)IPSC match that I attended, a fellow with a Kimber made some disparaging remarks about my Norinco...
His gun jammed at least half a dozen times during the match...mine performed flawlessly.
But I guarantee that he will say, when asked, that he's 'never had a stoppage'....much like BMW owners when asked about reliability..<g>
While the 1911 may be a seriously "outdated" pistol, it certainly is my favourite. I haven't had an opportunity to shoot my 'new' Browning Hi-Power yet, (I am humbly waiting for my government to bestow permission upon me to shoot it), so that opinion may change..I do prefer the 'feel' of the HP over the 1911...much better balance.
The 'reliability' issue of automatic pistols, and the 1911 in particular, is quite a contentious issue, no doubt about that....as a relative newcomer to handgunning, I can only relate my own recent experiences. At the last (US)IPSC match that I attended, a fellow with a Kimber made some disparaging remarks about my Norinco...
His gun jammed at least half a dozen times during the match...mine performed flawlessly.
But I guarantee that he will say, when asked, that he's 'never had a stoppage'....much like BMW owners when asked about reliability..<g>
While the 1911 may be a seriously "outdated" pistol, it certainly is my favourite. I haven't had an opportunity to shoot my 'new' Browning Hi-Power yet, (I am humbly waiting for my government to bestow permission upon me to shoot it), so that opinion may change..I do prefer the 'feel' of the HP over the 1911...much better balance.
Mike Irwin
Staff
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RikWriter:
So Mike, it's your contention that anyone who claims not to have had a stoppage with a 1911 is a liar?
If so, I take that as a personal insult, as I have not had a stoppage with most of my 1911s, have said so and am not a liar.[/quote]
Calm down, Rik. Please REREAD Mike's message, and you'll see very clearly what Mike is saying, and how it relates to a SINGLE person he met at his range.
I've known Mike long enough, and read enough of his messages, to know that he is not one for making the kind of blanket, all encompassing pronouncements that many others here make on a regular basis.
His comment about BMW owners may be seen as such, but I suspect, given his line of work, that he's dealt with far more BMW owners than most of us have seen on the road.
And why would you take Mike's message as a personal insult? Your message implies that you've had stoppages with at least SOME of your 1911s ("I have not had a stoppage with most of my 1911s").
What's the disconnect here?
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
So Mike, it's your contention that anyone who claims not to have had a stoppage with a 1911 is a liar?
If so, I take that as a personal insult, as I have not had a stoppage with most of my 1911s, have said so and am not a liar.[/quote]
Calm down, Rik. Please REREAD Mike's message, and you'll see very clearly what Mike is saying, and how it relates to a SINGLE person he met at his range.
I've known Mike long enough, and read enough of his messages, to know that he is not one for making the kind of blanket, all encompassing pronouncements that many others here make on a regular basis.
His comment about BMW owners may be seen as such, but I suspect, given his line of work, that he's dealt with far more BMW owners than most of us have seen on the road.
And why would you take Mike's message as a personal insult? Your message implies that you've had stoppages with at least SOME of your 1911s ("I have not had a stoppage with most of my 1911s").
What's the disconnect here?
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
I had a HK USP in .45acp. The stock magazines were horrible, IMO. They did not like the tenth round at all. 
Does that mean that the supposedly reliable USPs are not reliable? No, of course not.
With around 1000 or so rounds through my SA loaded gov't model, I have experienced to malfunctions of any kind.
I eventually do want to upgrade magazines, though.
Does that mean that the supposedly reliable USPs are not reliable? No, of course not. With around 1000 or so rounds through my SA loaded gov't model, I have experienced to malfunctions of any kind.
I eventually do want to upgrade magazines, though.
I must have been cursed by the "clone" problem. I had two ParaOrdnances. They're both gone now. After only two or three months, the P12.45's hammer would not stay cocked back. Had to send it back to P-O for repair, but carrying that gun never was the same after that.
Got two Glocks now. Are they 100% reliable? With factory high-caps (and no +2 baseplates), yes. The factory ten round mags are definitely not as reliable as the original high caps.
1911s may be reliable but after dropping that much money on the Para, I can't see myself taking that risk again.
Justin
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Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
Got two Glocks now. Are they 100% reliable? With factory high-caps (and no +2 baseplates), yes. The factory ten round mags are definitely not as reliable as the original high caps.
1911s may be reliable but after dropping that much money on the Para, I can't see myself taking that risk again.
Justin
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Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
Trust is earned, and so is distrust. The 1911 design did not get it's reputation as "unreliable" without cause.
The 1911 has been known as the jammomatic for longer than most of us have been alive, so I do not buy it when people say that current knockoffs or current Colts are to blame for the reputation. ALL semi-autos (epitomized by the 1911 design for many decades) were considered universally very unreliable until the last part of the 20th century. For 80 years, the 1911 was the very gun that made people and police choose revolvers for carry. Only in the last 15 years or so, when new, RELIABLE semi-auto designs came out, were police willing to set down their revolvers and give a semi-auto (like Sig or Glock among others) a chance. Military guys were often told to only carry 5 rounds in the 1911 magazine, with the chamber empty. That is how reliable they considered the gun. No one can tell me that a jammomatic 1911 is just a fluke. They got that reputation by EARNING it for almost 100 years now.
A reliable 1911 that does not need gunsmithing at $50 an hour is a fluke. If you got one, consider yourself lucky because there are many others of us out here who spent many thousands of dollars trying to find a reliable 1911 and we found out the hard way that they can't be trusted.
Yes, trust is earned, and none of my 1911's ever earned it, no matter what brand I tried or how much money I put into them.
Gunsmiths LOVE the 1911, and for some reason, there sure are a lot of 1911 gunsmiths out there, and none of them are short of work (/sarcasm). Most of them make a very fair living fixing unreliable 1911's. If the gun is so great of a design, and works so well out of the box, then how come there are so many gunsmiths who specialize in getting it to be reliable at $50 an hour?
I don't see gunsmiths that specialize in HK, Sig or Glock hanging a shingle out at every shooting range, and offering custom "reliability packages" like they do for 1911's. That is because more often then not, those guns do what they are supposed to do, right out of the box.
You can argue all you want that YOUR 1911 is reliable, but you can't argue with the fact that the 1911 earned a reputation for unreliability for many decades now, and there are an inordinate amount of gunsmiths out there that make a lot of money trying to make 1911's reliable.
A few people here claim to have had good experiences with some of their 1911's, but I can assure you that that is the exception and not the rule.
[This message has been edited by Red Bull (edited August 17, 2000).]
The 1911 has been known as the jammomatic for longer than most of us have been alive, so I do not buy it when people say that current knockoffs or current Colts are to blame for the reputation. ALL semi-autos (epitomized by the 1911 design for many decades) were considered universally very unreliable until the last part of the 20th century. For 80 years, the 1911 was the very gun that made people and police choose revolvers for carry. Only in the last 15 years or so, when new, RELIABLE semi-auto designs came out, were police willing to set down their revolvers and give a semi-auto (like Sig or Glock among others) a chance. Military guys were often told to only carry 5 rounds in the 1911 magazine, with the chamber empty. That is how reliable they considered the gun. No one can tell me that a jammomatic 1911 is just a fluke. They got that reputation by EARNING it for almost 100 years now.
A reliable 1911 that does not need gunsmithing at $50 an hour is a fluke. If you got one, consider yourself lucky because there are many others of us out here who spent many thousands of dollars trying to find a reliable 1911 and we found out the hard way that they can't be trusted.
Yes, trust is earned, and none of my 1911's ever earned it, no matter what brand I tried or how much money I put into them.
Gunsmiths LOVE the 1911, and for some reason, there sure are a lot of 1911 gunsmiths out there, and none of them are short of work (/sarcasm). Most of them make a very fair living fixing unreliable 1911's. If the gun is so great of a design, and works so well out of the box, then how come there are so many gunsmiths who specialize in getting it to be reliable at $50 an hour?
I don't see gunsmiths that specialize in HK, Sig or Glock hanging a shingle out at every shooting range, and offering custom "reliability packages" like they do for 1911's. That is because more often then not, those guns do what they are supposed to do, right out of the box.
You can argue all you want that YOUR 1911 is reliable, but you can't argue with the fact that the 1911 earned a reputation for unreliability for many decades now, and there are an inordinate amount of gunsmiths out there that make a lot of money trying to make 1911's reliable.
A few people here claim to have had good experiences with some of their 1911's, but I can assure you that that is the exception and not the rule.
[This message has been edited by Red Bull (edited August 17, 2000).]
"A reliable 1911 that does not need gunsmithing at $50 an hour is a fluke. If you got one, consider yourself lucky because there are many others of us out here who spent many thousands of dollars trying to find a reliable 1911 and we found out the hard way that they can't be trusted."
I count myself lucky...
I count myself lucky...
I am glad to find out that I am not the only one, who has had an unreliable Para Ordnance. I presently own a P-13, that I will not carry on duty, due to its propensity for jamming.
Additionally I am glad to see that I was not the only one, who picked up on RikWriters strange logic, concerning the relaiblity of his "mostly" reliable 1911s. That was funny.
7th
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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.
Additionally I am glad to see that I was not the only one, who picked up on RikWriters strange logic, concerning the relaiblity of his "mostly" reliable 1911s. That was funny.
7th
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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.
Sorry to disappoint you guys, but stop patting yourselves on the back...I said "no stoppages with most of my 1911s" because I was being honest. I have had two dozen 1911s, and only two have had stoppages: one Para Ordnance that didn't like CorBon 185 grains, and one Frankenstein parts gun put together by God Knows Who that had a broken mainspring.
However, none of my Colts or Kimbers has had a single stoppage. Over 6,000 rounds through my Gold Match with no stoppages. According to Mike, that would make me a liar, since he seems to think that anyone who owns a 1911 and claims to not have FTFs is lying.
However, none of my Colts or Kimbers has had a single stoppage. Over 6,000 rounds through my Gold Match with no stoppages. According to Mike, that would make me a liar, since he seems to think that anyone who owns a 1911 and claims to not have FTFs is lying.
Mike Davies
New member
RikWriter:
Think about it...I've never had a stoppage with my Norinco...so using your logic I guess I'm a liar too...
Re-read my post..I'm talking about one snotty bozo with a Kimber...
Do you drive a BMW, by any chance?<g>
Think about it...I've never had a stoppage with my Norinco...so using your logic I guess I'm a liar too...
Re-read my post..I'm talking about one snotty bozo with a Kimber...
Do you drive a BMW, by any chance?<g>
Bottom Gun
New member
Guess I need to join the liar's club too.
Although I will go on record as saying that I have seen 1911s that jammed frequently.
I don't own one though.
Although I will go on record as saying that I have seen 1911s that jammed frequently.
I don't own one though.
Mike, so you say...but the tone of your post suggested differently, particularly when taken in the context of this thread and the one that preceded it.
I drive a Jeep BTW...but you know the difference between porcupines and BMWs?
Porcupines have their pricks on the OUTSIDE...
I drive a Jeep BTW...but you know the difference between porcupines and BMWs?
Porcupines have their pricks on the OUTSIDE...
Mike Irwin
Staff
Still don't know what you're talking about, Rik. Unless it was you whom Mike met at the club...
I think you're trying to hard to find an insult that just isn't there.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
I think you're trying to hard to find an insult that just isn't there.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Calm down fellas...
Take it easy.
I think this thread has run its course.
Closed
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You might laugh in the face of FEAR... but unless your armed, its a nervous, unconvincing, little laugh.
Take it easy.
I think this thread has run its course.
Closed
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You might laugh in the face of FEAR... but unless your armed, its a nervous, unconvincing, little laugh.
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