1903 Springfield Identification

There's a potentially bigger problem than the strength issue: if the serial number has been altered, it's a federal (and possibly also state) felony to possess the firearm. And the way the law is written, even if the alteration was done before you were born, by person or persons unknown, if you are in possession the law presumes that you are the miscreant who performed the alteration.

Be careful.
 
...law presumes that you are the miscreant who performed the alteration.
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Thankfully there is no evidence whatsoever of serial number modification.. And it seems, as was mentioned earlier, that Nat'l Ordnance guns are original cast receivers with surplus parts, which explains everything else. So maybe the SN wasn't actually modified at all.

Thank you for the warning though! Felonies are bad! :p Always helpful when people give good legal advice. I appreciate the courtesy greatly.
 
I can't prove it but I suspect that it would take intent to deceive on the owners part before the weight of the law would fall upon someones head.

Clearly the gun has a history that indicates none of that by two owners.

This is also not a type of gun that would be an issue with due to the history of mfg and the fact is a pre 1968 gun.

That said the SN is clearly out of known line, it does not mean its not an oddball extension or even a mis stamp.
 
As you say: "The following is not attributed but if its correct, still not 6 million." (Emphasis added.)
I would not hang my hat on the recordkeeping of a bunch of feather merchants like Nat Ord and would assume the serial number legit.
Usability of the rifle is doubtful, it should be a wallhanger heirloom not to be advertised anyhow.
 
Jim: Mostly I agree, but in this case its a huge bust outside the known SN range.

I am intrigued maybe as much as Grant is (but I like stuff like that)

I know of a 1917 that is like 50k higher (with stamps) but Nat Ord did not make 750,000 as the figures show.

GOOD TO REREAD THINGS AND THANKS TO JIM AGAIN:


YEAR SERIAL NUMBERS QUANTITY
1965-1966 6,000,001 to 6,030,000 2500
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I read that as 6,00,000 range and 2500 made. From what I am not sure unless it was recovered receivers of some kind. That part looks to be resolved!

I would also tag it (I have some items I have done that with so if something happens to me family going through my oddity and entities would know they are special value (in this case)

My wife was out with a friend at a garage sale and found an Accordion a while back. I think she paid $250 for it. She was nervous I would be upset (no anyway) - yes I would like to see it, accordions are cool, you don't do things like that often.

Phewee, Honey, I think you found something worth a lot more than a run of the mill one. From the accordions I have seen quality wise I am guessing its $1 -1500.

Turns out to be around 2k value.

Not to harp on good deals and things, but tags are good idea for special items be it an odd gun you won't want someo0ne to shoot or an accordion that has been left behind that was worth a lot (or requires special handling)

You can put the tag behind the gun if on display, put it in the magazine so that its obvious if someone cycles the bolt.

Might seriously consider neutering it with a trigger removal or part there off.
 
...it should be a wallhanger heirloom...
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She will be. She's had a lot of history. The date still doesn't match up as my great-grandfather bought it for my grandfather who was 13 when the war ended. Then my grandfather gave it to my dad, and he decided to re-stock it and make it look pretty. Gorgeous gun, I think.

I'm surely not going to neuter the thing! There's only two people who ever have access to it so it's no big deal. I'll probably end up restoring it as best as possible and putting her away. Definitely not gonna sell, no matter how much she's worth. I always felt attracted to her when I was a wee lad. Shame I probably can't shoot her anymore. While I tested her chamber with some live rounds (Yeah, yeah, criticize me. I was safe.) I found that the extractor ripped the rims of cases up. Even nickel plated ones!

One more picture, a full one under the front scope mount. Too lazy to transfer it so I'll post it later. It is Christmas Eve after all! :)

I went through and cleaned as much as I could, I need to get the rust out of the bore. Still need to take some rust remover to it. Merry Christmas :D
 
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Grant: Getting time lines is a tough thing as most peoples memories are not the best. Nothing against the people involved, its pretty common.

My brothers and I share a common and active outdoors history. Often they are wrong on what happened and who. I tend to be right if I remember it, but in some cases, I have no memory of the event (my mom can often clear up stuff as she has good recorded type brain.


My take on this issues is there are a great many risks in this world, most are in whats known in the control world as "noise"

You made a decision with suspicion and my take is:

One of the hugest ones are hospitals. They kill an incredible number of patients who otherwise with the correct protocols and treatment (washing your hands!) would have been fine.

Driving to the shooting range and an accident has a risk factor, not something I have the math to quantify but certainly as much or more than guns going boom.

My SGD gun has a heat treated era issue bolt (you can ID them by the handle angle). I have no issue shooting it.

Marines kept their risky low SN RIA 1903s up to Guadalcanal (where they realized the M1 was pretty cool ) and acquired as many from the Army as they could (some people even claim the term Liberated is not to harsh!)

While I was at the range one day a guy blew up a MODERN Model 70. Damned if I know what you could do to accomplish that but it had all the hallmarks of a heat treated receiver failing (or a recovered 1903A3 decommissioned receiver that I saw pictures of, clearly a heat stress crack)

People build rifles from those drill riffle receivers and are ok with it.

All my military 1903 or 1917s have unsupported case heads and most just the single gas release hole - there is a risk there, I mitigate it as best I can.

About 50% of the people at the range are poor gun handlers (ignorant) and maybe 25% are plain incompetent, dangerous and or have an attitude and combinations of the 3.

A good question here is why Nat Ord started out with higher SN than they used latter?
 
Yeah it's awful murky... I don't think there's any way to really find out and that's alright! :)

I'm lucky enough to be one of the few people who has no fear. Maybe it's just my testosterone! So no, I'm not worried at all about shooting it. The way the rifle is built, I'm more worried about the GUN blowing up than the gun blowing me up! I'd hate to shoot a rifle that I didn't need to shoot and see it blow up.

It's funny though, I have the largest outdoor range in the country up the street, as well as Scottsdale Gun Club, which is no slouch among the best indoor ranges. So I'm not really scared about the drive :)

Merry Christmas!
 
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The odd ones I have never resolved fully. I had a Remington 1903A3 receiver sportorized that had a Smith Corona 6 grove barrel (late 1943 as I recall) l that was put together in Australia in WWII at a repair station (and marked as such)

Receiver was new with no wear marks at all - it would seem an assembly of that and a spare barrel rather than repalcment for a shot out one (they did not shoot them that much and few saw combat, some yest but not lots)

And then got back to US. Smacks of someone with time on their hands, parts and build themselves a rifle and got it back to the US.

Other possibles on it of course, it was interesting.

Nothing wrong with caution, good to make as informed a decision as possible.

Merry Christmas as well.
 
Wow, that's a cool rifle. It'd be worth having just for the odd history alone, let alone the fact that these 1903s are really awesome rifles!

Thank you so much for all the help, couldn't have figured it out without you. I think the mystery behind the rifle keeps it intriguing and interesting so I'm gonna leave it at, "partially solved mystery with a lot of data that doesn't add up" category.

And as for shooting her, I'm not going to do it. No reason to. She deserves a nice coat of oil and some rest. She's done enough. Consider her officially retired as of Christmas :)
 
Grant, for wall hanging- I might humbly consider a good coat of wax? Either Johnson's Paste Wax, or... well dang, there's another one, kinda geared towards museums, heirlooms, ect- but I forget the name. It's got a kind of cool antiqey looking can.
 
I'll gladly coat her with wax! I take really good care of all my stuff and will continue to wax, oil and clean her for the rest of my days. She was a hard worker, thank you for the advice :)
 
Grant, for wall hanging- I might humbly consider a good coat of wax? Either Johnson's Paste Wax, or... well dang, there's another one, kinda geared towards museums, heirlooms, ect- but I forget the name. It's got a kind of cool antiqey (antique) looking can.
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Renaissance Wax
 
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