Gopher .45
New member
18-21 year olds, if they can go to war, then by golly they should be able to buy beer and buy guns (hand or otherwise)! While I agree with this sentiment, I don't want to be on the road when that happens.
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19-year old ADULTS can't own handguns!
- Thread starter FUD
- Start date
I'm 22 as well, and I was really just throwing the idea out to see how it would be recieved. What it is in regards to though is the biggest killer age group, which to my knowledge is 18-25, but once again I could be wrong. You have a lot of these kids going into bars with saturday night specials and having fun little shoot outs. This is what the media latches on to, this is what the anti-gun/pro-crime/pro-socialism people latch on to, and so they target people like me who are not irresponsible, and have only drawn a handgun in self defense one time, and that time I would have been able to get away with shooting them but held my fire and scared them off instead.
The real question is, how do you take attention away from people in that age group that are morons and give attention to people like you and me? I suggest some of you take up the idea I threw forth in that other thread, "Liberal media? What are we telling them?"
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I twist the facts until they tell the truth
The real question is, how do you take attention away from people in that age group that are morons and give attention to people like you and me? I suggest some of you take up the idea I threw forth in that other thread, "Liberal media? What are we telling them?"
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I twist the facts until they tell the truth
David Roberson
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dangus:
You have a lot of these kids going into bars with saturday night specials and having fun little shoot outs. This is what the media latches on to... [/quote]
Woops! You've bought into some media-produced myths there yourself, Dangus. There aren't "lots of these kids" taking "saturday night specials" (a term popularized by the anti-gun media) onto bars for shootouts. It actually happens rarely, although any time it does, it's guaranteed plenty of national air time. Let a lawful firearm owner defend him/herself in a clear-cut case of self defense and it gets three inches on page C-17 of the local paper.
You have a lot of these kids going into bars with saturday night specials and having fun little shoot outs. This is what the media latches on to... [/quote]
Woops! You've bought into some media-produced myths there yourself, Dangus. There aren't "lots of these kids" taking "saturday night specials" (a term popularized by the anti-gun media) onto bars for shootouts. It actually happens rarely, although any time it does, it's guaranteed plenty of national air time. Let a lawful firearm owner defend him/herself in a clear-cut case of self defense and it gets three inches on page C-17 of the local paper.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Well, the TX CHL course is a pain to take.
Don't want to start the requirements for carry debate again but if a young person was financially emancipated and working and took a course like this, I would consider handgun ownership. Or maybe there is another scheme to determine responsible ownership.
One reason the CHL laws work is the demographics of most of those getting permits - older, responsible folk.
Now I am mixed, I have a daughter this age and wouldn't mind if she carried for self-protection but she is in school in a no carry state.
It is a tough one to separate good young people from bad.
I have no problem with long guns at home or for sporting use. A 20 gauge shotgun is a fine home weapon for a young women.
Don't want to start the requirements for carry debate again but if a young person was financially emancipated and working and took a course like this, I would consider handgun ownership. Or maybe there is another scheme to determine responsible ownership.
One reason the CHL laws work is the demographics of most of those getting permits - older, responsible folk.
Now I am mixed, I have a daughter this age and wouldn't mind if she carried for self-protection but she is in school in a no carry state.
It is a tough one to separate good young people from bad.
I have no problem with long guns at home or for sporting use. A 20 gauge shotgun is a fine home weapon for a young women.
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
In my state, the possesion of a firearm in an establishment that serves alcohol is a felony. But....the anti-gun people won't mention that when they tell you about all of the bar shootings. They want people to believe that legally obtained and legally carried firearms cause all that stuff.
Don't tell me I bought into the damn media hype, I've worked at several bars, and have numerous times had .22 rounds whiz right by me, there are still holes in the cooler at one of the bars where 3 bullets hit the cabinent right below me(passing between my legs no less). Don't tell me that it doesn't happen or that it's sensationalism, because it's not. I don't even live in that bad a town either. Despite having my health threatened numerous times by firearms in the hands of drunken idiots, I still strongly believe in my right to keep and bear arms. I do honestly believe that if you are caught drunk with a firearm they should fine the hell out of you and maybe throw you in jail for a while. If we cracked down on drunks with guns more they could leave the rest of us alone. I think a good rule of thumb would be, no guns allowed into bars, and if you are past the legal limit (for driving) then you are too drunk to be carrying a weapon. To keep the government from getting too carried away with this though, we need to start enforcing some of this ourselves. We need to make it a huge social stigma to be carrying a firearm while drunk, or for that matter otherwise intoxicated (ie. drugged up).
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I twist the facts until they tell the truth
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I twist the facts until they tell the truth
Hi everybody,
I came here pretty much by accident. I guess I am what you would call an "anti-gun person", a rare minority on this board it seems. Well, just for the protocol, I am a physics researcher at university in Canada. Worked and studies in the US for the last couple of yours after coming from the NATO crisis reaction forces. I am German myself, though I lived aswell in Russia, france, britain and several other countries during my youth. I fought in Somalia, in Jugoslavia and in Isreal. Yet still, I don't believe that free gun laws are a good solution to anything. Maybe BECAUSE of what I saw. The time I spend in the US, I spend in various places and depending on the place I would feel like being transfered into another century. In Boston at the MIT I felt like being in the 22 century already. Everybody peaceful, friendly and unarmed. Then New York was really a display of our century. Some controlled violence, some freaks but enough normal and peaceful people to outdo them. And then I came to a facility in Nevada. And suddenly I was in the stone ages. Open (and armed) brawls in the bars, burned out cross in front lawns, open use of weapons in "discussions". I had a farmer point a loaded shotgun at me and my lady (who has a bit of latino blood) on a public street threatening to shot us if "we have that nigger step on his ranch". I felt like hit with a stone. There I was, offering my life in many occasions in countries half the world declares as "uncivilised" and yet in the middle of the US I encountered manners, thought and behaviour that would make those tribesmen in Somalia look like peaceful philosophers. Even the chief of police in the small town tried to tell me all kinds of nonsense about "overreaction of a well meaning person" and I literally had to ignore the chief, call the feds and press charges for armed assault on NATO personel and breach of diplomatic immunity (my lady). It was a worse nightmare than seeing open slaughter in africa. Here I stood, in a civilised country witnessing behavior like that of barbarian tribes.
It brought me to one conclusion: Weapons require each and every user to be absolutely responsible and knowledgable about the effects of weapons. And making a little certificate really isn't enough here. First of all, if you want a gun then prove that you are mentally capable of judging the effects of the gun. A degree in ethics would be appropiate there. Dumb people don't get high political positions where they can cause trouble, so why give them weapons with which they can cause trouble? If you are mentally not capable of understanding the mechanism of a weapon, the social implications of possessing one, the consequences of using one, etc then you should get one. UNLESS your actions with it (ALL your actions) are controlled by somebody who IS capable of such understand (ie, the military, etc).
Next, if you show any kind of instability, be it aggressive behaviour, fast driving, anything like that, well, then you are not fir for carrying a gun either. If you are once thrown out of a bar for brawling, drinking too much, etc then you clearly demonstrated that you do not have the self control required to own a gun.
Next, you need a high level of maturity. Road races, brawls, etc simply display an absolute lack of that. So no gun for those people either.
Once all these parameters are checked, then I would feel at ease with the knowledge that guns are owned by private people. Because I could be reasonably sure that those few people are capable of knowing when NOT to use the gun.
Finally, just to make a very simple statement derived from observation:
The number per head of fatal crimes in the US is 4 times higher than the same rate in the european union. The european union has a very strict gun law. Simple as that.
I am more than willing to discuss this issue with anybody willing to do so in a friendly manner of philosophical discussion. Any flaming and other such display of immaturity will mearly result in a shrug and a report to the ISP. I don't think I will find my way back to this board, so please email me at hseetzen@physics.ubc.ca if you are interested in a discussion (I value all opinions brought forward with rational arguments in a friendly manner).
cheers
Helge
PS: What if Julie's sister buys a gun after the incident and the next night shoots a thief in the dark who turns out to be her own husband going for a cup of water?
Statistically, chances are higher (in the US) to die from a gun "accident" then a really planned (criminal) use of a gun...
I came here pretty much by accident. I guess I am what you would call an "anti-gun person", a rare minority on this board it seems. Well, just for the protocol, I am a physics researcher at university in Canada. Worked and studies in the US for the last couple of yours after coming from the NATO crisis reaction forces. I am German myself, though I lived aswell in Russia, france, britain and several other countries during my youth. I fought in Somalia, in Jugoslavia and in Isreal. Yet still, I don't believe that free gun laws are a good solution to anything. Maybe BECAUSE of what I saw. The time I spend in the US, I spend in various places and depending on the place I would feel like being transfered into another century. In Boston at the MIT I felt like being in the 22 century already. Everybody peaceful, friendly and unarmed. Then New York was really a display of our century. Some controlled violence, some freaks but enough normal and peaceful people to outdo them. And then I came to a facility in Nevada. And suddenly I was in the stone ages. Open (and armed) brawls in the bars, burned out cross in front lawns, open use of weapons in "discussions". I had a farmer point a loaded shotgun at me and my lady (who has a bit of latino blood) on a public street threatening to shot us if "we have that nigger step on his ranch". I felt like hit with a stone. There I was, offering my life in many occasions in countries half the world declares as "uncivilised" and yet in the middle of the US I encountered manners, thought and behaviour that would make those tribesmen in Somalia look like peaceful philosophers. Even the chief of police in the small town tried to tell me all kinds of nonsense about "overreaction of a well meaning person" and I literally had to ignore the chief, call the feds and press charges for armed assault on NATO personel and breach of diplomatic immunity (my lady). It was a worse nightmare than seeing open slaughter in africa. Here I stood, in a civilised country witnessing behavior like that of barbarian tribes.
It brought me to one conclusion: Weapons require each and every user to be absolutely responsible and knowledgable about the effects of weapons. And making a little certificate really isn't enough here. First of all, if you want a gun then prove that you are mentally capable of judging the effects of the gun. A degree in ethics would be appropiate there. Dumb people don't get high political positions where they can cause trouble, so why give them weapons with which they can cause trouble? If you are mentally not capable of understanding the mechanism of a weapon, the social implications of possessing one, the consequences of using one, etc then you should get one. UNLESS your actions with it (ALL your actions) are controlled by somebody who IS capable of such understand (ie, the military, etc).
Next, if you show any kind of instability, be it aggressive behaviour, fast driving, anything like that, well, then you are not fir for carrying a gun either. If you are once thrown out of a bar for brawling, drinking too much, etc then you clearly demonstrated that you do not have the self control required to own a gun.
Next, you need a high level of maturity. Road races, brawls, etc simply display an absolute lack of that. So no gun for those people either.
Once all these parameters are checked, then I would feel at ease with the knowledge that guns are owned by private people. Because I could be reasonably sure that those few people are capable of knowing when NOT to use the gun.
Finally, just to make a very simple statement derived from observation:
The number per head of fatal crimes in the US is 4 times higher than the same rate in the european union. The european union has a very strict gun law. Simple as that.
I am more than willing to discuss this issue with anybody willing to do so in a friendly manner of philosophical discussion. Any flaming and other such display of immaturity will mearly result in a shrug and a report to the ISP. I don't think I will find my way back to this board, so please email me at hseetzen@physics.ubc.ca if you are interested in a discussion (I value all opinions brought forward with rational arguments in a friendly manner).
cheers
Helge
PS: What if Julie's sister buys a gun after the incident and the next night shoots a thief in the dark who turns out to be her own husband going for a cup of water?
Statistically, chances are higher (in the US) to die from a gun "accident" then a really planned (criminal) use of a gun...
Hello, Helge. Please refer to the new thread at http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=27966 to continue. Thanks.
Where is Hedges getting his info on firearms accidents and criminal assaults? Never have seen those statistics.
Last time I looked firearm accidents were about as likely as dying from choking on food. Firearms are much safer than swimming.
One of the problems in this country is that "a lot of people know a lot of things that ain't so."
Two of the most important things we can do is: vote and serve on juries. Always vote the one issue either for or against and always be willing to serve on juries. Far too many times good citizens try to get off and leaves only the less desirable group who have no knowledge at all of what is going on in their community let alone the world.
Probably one of the problems with us who believe in KABA is that we try to be so law abiding that we refuse to go the limit. Too many are willing to just sit back and observe rather than really get involved.
Last time I looked firearm accidents were about as likely as dying from choking on food. Firearms are much safer than swimming.
One of the problems in this country is that "a lot of people know a lot of things that ain't so."
Two of the most important things we can do is: vote and serve on juries. Always vote the one issue either for or against and always be willing to serve on juries. Far too many times good citizens try to get off and leaves only the less desirable group who have no knowledge at all of what is going on in their community let alone the world.
Probably one of the problems with us who believe in KABA is that we try to be so law abiding that we refuse to go the limit. Too many are willing to just sit back and observe rather than really get involved.