I would love to see Miroku make an exact replica of the original Winchester Model 71 (preferably the "Deluxe" variant). And, actually, I could live with a tang safety on a Model 71 replica if such is needed to market a firearm in America in the 21st century. I do remember Browning making an effort to do so a couple of decades ago and "Winchester" as recently as a few years ago, but neither company's rendition of the Model 71 seemed especially authentic to me.
1886/1892, Miroku Winchester or Chiappa??
- Thread starter RIDE-RED 350r
- Start date
i have quite a few browning-winchester marked rifles and shotguns made by miroku and have not had any problems with fit-finish or function over the years with them. my favorites are a browning low wall in .260, a winchester high wall short hunter in 45-70, a winchester high wall carbine in 30-40 krag, a browning A-bolt in .22 magnum, a browning BT-100 trap 12ga and a browning 20XS o/u 20ga. eastbank.
RIDE-RED 350r
New member
I have no issue at all with the Miroku name stamped on the barrel along with Winchester. I care more about quality, and based on the many reports I have seen, Miroku delivers.
Here is an observation I have. Funny how there are other brands of rifles that are not US made that people swear by and love. I don't understand why some folks have a problem with the whole Browning/Winchester/Miroku thing. Winchester as a company failed us, their business model was apparently flawed in the later years. I for one am glad that despite different manufacturing origins, Browning stepped up and bought the name and continues to offer our "Winchester" rifles we all like. But for that, the Winchester name would be completely extinct.
I bought a new Winchester m70 a couple of years back. That rifle is amazing! I will gladly buy, own, and shoot my Miroku 1886 when I get one. If Turnbull speaks highly of them, I don't know what else a guy could ask for.
Here is an observation I have. Funny how there are other brands of rifles that are not US made that people swear by and love. I don't understand why some folks have a problem with the whole Browning/Winchester/Miroku thing. Winchester as a company failed us, their business model was apparently flawed in the later years. I for one am glad that despite different manufacturing origins, Browning stepped up and bought the name and continues to offer our "Winchester" rifles we all like. But for that, the Winchester name would be completely extinct.
I bought a new Winchester m70 a couple of years back. That rifle is amazing! I will gladly buy, own, and shoot my Miroku 1886 when I get one. If Turnbull speaks highly of them, I don't know what else a guy could ask for.
"... Winchester as a company failed us,..."
Actually, I'm of the opinion that we failed them. Winchester's woes can arguably have started after the year that has lived in infamy, 1964. It was during this time period that Winchester came to understand that the buying public were more interested in buying cheaper to make, yet serviceable firearms that were being made by companies like Remington and Savage rather than Winchester's more costly to manufacture Model 70s, Model 94s, Model 12s, etc., with their machined steel parts and hand-checkered stocks. Ergo, in an effort to compete with less expensive to make Remington Model 721/722/700 rifles; Model 870/1100 shotguns and Savage Model 110 rifles (to name a few); post-Model 70s, Model 94s, and Model 1200s were entirely serviceable with their stamped sheet metal parts and impressed "checkered" stocks, but lacked the quality hallmarks that Winchester had taken 100 years or so to achieve.
An overly simplistic analysis to be sure, but there's enough truth to this oft-stated scenario to place much of the blame on the shoulders of shooters and hunters of the time who refused to pony up the necessary money to pay for the hand labor and quality parts it took to make the firearms Winchester's good reputation was based on.
Actually, I'm of the opinion that we failed them. Winchester's woes can arguably have started after the year that has lived in infamy, 1964. It was during this time period that Winchester came to understand that the buying public were more interested in buying cheaper to make, yet serviceable firearms that were being made by companies like Remington and Savage rather than Winchester's more costly to manufacture Model 70s, Model 94s, Model 12s, etc., with their machined steel parts and hand-checkered stocks. Ergo, in an effort to compete with less expensive to make Remington Model 721/722/700 rifles; Model 870/1100 shotguns and Savage Model 110 rifles (to name a few); post-Model 70s, Model 94s, and Model 1200s were entirely serviceable with their stamped sheet metal parts and impressed "checkered" stocks, but lacked the quality hallmarks that Winchester had taken 100 years or so to achieve.
An overly simplistic analysis to be sure, but there's enough truth to this oft-stated scenario to place much of the blame on the shoulders of shooters and hunters of the time who refused to pony up the necessary money to pay for the hand labor and quality parts it took to make the firearms Winchester's good reputation was based on.
RIDE-RED 350r
New member
That is a very interesting perspective, and you know what, I can't say I disagree with it.. Can't blame Winchester for trying to compete for a growing market segment, a market segment that wanted to spend less money on a rifle that functions well. I wonder if it might have turned out differently had Winchester added an economy line of rifles and kept their originals, kind of like the later New Haven years when they offered "Classic" model 70 along with the push feed rifles.
I hate to turn this into that same old discussion of monday morning quarterbacking regarding what Winchester did in that year of infamy... But, it seems my initial question was more than answered, so have at it.
I hate to turn this into that same old discussion of monday morning quarterbacking regarding what Winchester did in that year of infamy... But, it seems my initial question was more than answered, so have at it.
QUOTE: "...I wonder if it might have turned out differently had Winchester added an economy line of rifles and kept their originals, kind of like the later New Haven years when they offered "Classic" model 70 along with the push feed rifles..."
Now that's an interesting question! A couple of Winchester rifles (the Models 88 and 100) did survive the the post-64 marketing transition for a few years but even they were eventually adorned with the cheaper, stamped "basket weave" impressions on their stocks, replacing the costlier, original hand-checkering, before fading into obscurity.
Now that's an interesting question! A couple of Winchester rifles (the Models 88 and 100) did survive the the post-64 marketing transition for a few years but even they were eventually adorned with the cheaper, stamped "basket weave" impressions on their stocks, replacing the costlier, original hand-checkering, before fading into obscurity.