1851 Navy, .44 cal.......now what?

B

berkmberk1

New member
As I posted earlier, I just received by Traditions, 1851 Navy, in .44 cal. I know that among other things I need to get: a powder flask, balls (:eek:), wads, caps, powder, replacement nipples (eventually) and wrench, leather (handled), and wedge tools (ie. punch/hammer or wedge tool?). I may have missed something or other, but I believe this covers most of it.

My first questions are these: What would be suggested for the nipple wrench(size, shape, etc.)? What size nipple does a Pietta normally take (standard, metric, size?).

Any help is appreciated.

Mike
 
Nipple size for Piettas is 6x.75 If you replace them get Treso. http://www.thunder-ridge.com/proddetail.php?prod=11-50-01
Or you can get a nipple wrench with replacement nipples from Cabela's
http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0003248210271a.shtml
I use a plastic screwdriver handle to bump the wedge flush and if needed a brass punch to push the wedge thru till it's loose enough. Do not remove or loosen the wedge screw. All it's for is to catch the lip on the spring to keep it from coming all the way out. Before you remove the wedge pay attention to how far it protrudes on the right side, you don't want to drive it back in any further. If it's too far in it will bind your cylinder. Most fit flush or just a tad past flush on the right side.
 
Nipple wrench would be any one that mentioned 'revolver' in the description or title (sizes are 'revolver' or 'pistol', 'Walker' and 'rifle'). If you can find one that's been hardened buy it regardless of the price. It'll be more, but it'll also be worth it. The slots in most wrenches are thin walled and wear out soon, so the extra cost of hardened steel will save money in the long run. Track of the Wolf used to carry hardened nipple wrenches but I've not seen them lately, so I don't have a good link to give you.
 
Progress....sort of

Alright... I've discovered Springfield, IL is not a hot bed of black powder aficiandos. Having the day off, I went to the range with my 9mm CZ75 and my Bounty Hunter .45LC. The ejector rod modification works great! :D The gun is nicely accurate....better than I am! ;)

On my way out I picked up a box of Hornady .454 balls (the only box) and some CCI #11 caps (about the only thing they carried). They had no BP or substitutes on the shelf.

Drove to the local surplus store (Birds and Brooks) and found some 44-45 lubed wads, a nipple wrench (one of only three or four in stcck) and some American Pioneer "Jim Shockey's Gold" bp substitute. I would have bought another box of balls ($9.99) but they only take cash :confused: and not plastic so I had to leave those behind.

Those two places had no flasks or cappers. I guess its LEE Dippers and fingers for the first few cylinders anyway!

Anyway.........I'm going to try the JSG and the CCI caps as there is little I can do otherwise anyway!

Any ideas or comments on the components? Anyone try this powder in a .45 cartridge?

I am looking into mail order, but I also want to try out the 1851 this weekend and can't really wait........:D
 
For the very short term......until I get a flask and measure, I'll have to rely on my Lee measures. Bought em years ago and they still work great in a pinch......:D
 
How do you un-wedgie?

Prepping according to owner's manual (if you call a trifold sheet of paper a "manual :rolleyes:) which calls for disassembly to clean and properly lube before firing.............I swear they weld those wedges in.

Any tips on how to get it out......your mission if you choose to accept it......the only tools available are STEEL:eek:........I do have a plastic machinist hammer but the only punches are steel.........any secrets here?:o
 
New wedges are rather tight. First, do not remove or loosen the wedge screw. It's only purpose is to catch the lip on the wedge spring and keep the wedge from coming all the way out. Second, pay close attention to how far the wedge protrudes on the opposite side from the screw so you can reinstall it to the same place. Most fit flush or just a tad past flush. If you drive it through too far the cylinder will lock up. If the wedge protrudes any on the opposite side from the screw you can use a plastic hammer to tap it flush. Now you'll need a brass punch or a piece of hardwood to punch it through a little more till it loosens up. If you're careful you can pry it from the screw side with a screwdriver but it's real easy to mar it like that. Once it's fully disengaged put the hammer on half cock and rotate the cylinder till the ram is between chambers then use the ram to pry the barrel off. Do not polish or file the wedge to make it fit better. It will loosen up over time.
 
Hey! Guess what I found out!

:) Not having a brass punch, piece of hardwood or nylon that would fit, I tried this.......I used a penny!!! Holding it in a pair of skinny pliers to keep from blasting my fingers, I laid it on top of the wedge and wacked it with my plastic hammer. Voi la". Wedge un-wedged.

Thanks for the input......
 
Ain't it just the way......

Navy Colt, field stripped, cleaned, reassembled successfully, but............I found out the nipple wrench I bought (CVA rifle/pistol) just won't work. It doesn't reach into the little well created by the nipple hole/threads. Hope its returnable.........:o:o:o
 
berkmberk1,

I know it's been a while since your last post, but I hope you're monitoring this forum still. I too just bout a .44 '51 navy, and I was wondering the same thing as you, as far as the powder measure/flask situation. What did you end up using? appreciate any advice from you or any of the others out there. thnx.
 
I use an old cylindrical CVA flask and an old Thompson Center powder measure. Stay away from the traditional Colt styles for any practical use. They dent easily and mine split apart at the seam after a couple of years.
Thompson Center still makes powder measures like mine but they're not solid brass like mine anymore. They appear to be brass and teflon. I don't think they make a powder flask exactly like mine anymore. I don't have a pic of mine but whatever you get make sure it's sturdy.
Here's my measure.

100_0844.jpg
 
Contemporary flask

I finally bought the 5" Treso flask from The Possibles Shop. It comes standard with a 30 gr spout. The way I use it is to cap it with my finger, point it down, push the valve, shake it, and then release the valve and turn it upright. Done in one motion its kind of a big flick of the wrist. I figure the skin of my finger in the spout takes off a few grains......so I figure it throws around 27-28.

I know, I know......never charge direct from a flask. I don't reload immediately. I'm either alternating between my 1851 and my 1858, or I'm shooting a CAS match where it'll be a while before I reload anyway.
 
Newbie to newbie

I used lee dippers that I happened to have around, then replaced them with dippers made from brass cartridge cases. I cut rifle cases to length with a tubing cutter. Then I JB-Welded (epoxy) nails to them for handles--solder would work too. They work great. Because I started making them with the Lee dippers, i've got 10 odd-ball sizes from 13g to 34g.

As I figure out what works for me, I'll be replacing the DIY stuff. I bought a nice brass pistol measure from Possibles Shop. But so far I only use it to check the measurements of the cartridge case dippers.

I've haven't found a powder flask I like yet, so I'm still using the one i made. I found a big pill bottle (about 10 oz). I drilled a hole in the cap and cut the base off a 30-06 case and glued it in place for a spout. Now, I pour from it into the measuring dipper over top of the tuna can. Any spillage I pour back into the "powder flask."

I bought a snail capper, because they make it easier to cap. But half the time I cap with my fingers and set them with a wooden dowel. Surprising how nimble my mitts haven gotten with some practice.

At a garage sale, I found a stainless steel nipple wrench for a rifle. I used my dremel to grind it down small enough to fit my revolvers. If i could find a hardened steel revolver nipple wrench, I'll buy it.
 
I tried APP in my Pietta 1851 using .45 Schofield brass in an R&D cylinder. I cleared through about 35 rounds before it started to act sluggish. The residue of APP reminded me of hard water deposits, but it was easy to clean off.
 
If any body is interested Taylors carries a hardened nipple wrench.
I just recently purchased one and it work slicker than snot on a door knob!:p
 
<First, do not remove or loosen the wedge screw.>

Ok, I'm confused now. The instructions that came with my '51 from Pietta says:

3) "To remove the cylinder, back the wedge screw out of the gun until it almost touches the wedge."

What's the deal?
BB in SC
 
Ok, I'm confused now. The instructions that came with my '51 from Pietta says:

3) "To remove the cylinder, back the wedge screw out of the gun until it almost touches the wedge."
Click to expand...

You read instructions??????:eek:

That's to give you a replacement point for reinstalling the wedge. The screw on my 60 however is too short. It will come out before it touches the wedge. Using it just adds another step in disassembly and reassembly.
The wedge screw holds nothing. If you leave it in it will catch the lip of the wedge spring and keep the wedge from falling all the way out.
Before you remove the wedge take notice of how far it protrudes on the side opposite from the screw. You want to replace it to the same position. Drive it in too deep and it will bind up your cylinder.
 
<Before you remove the wedge take notice of how far it protrudes on the side opposite from the screw. You want to replace it to the same position. Drive it in too deep and it will bind up your cylinder..
yeah, I knew that much. My wedge fits flush on the opposite side of the gun, for the correct fit. OK, what keeps the wedge from just falling out after it gets some use on it, and loosens?
<If you leave it in it will catch the lip of the wedge spring and keep the wedge from falling all the way out.>
OK I see now, I think. So the wedge does not have to come completely out to remove the barrel and cylinder?
BB in SC
 
The wedge screw holds nothing
Click to expand...

Actually, according to the original Colt patent, the wedge screw acts as a depth check for the wedge.

Patent #1,304 dated 8/29/1839. In this patent, Colt talks about the "key" or wedge. "As the key C is to act laterally as a wedge to draw the receiver and the barrel into contact, it is of importance that it should be checked when forced sufficiently far in, or the receiver might be wedged up and prevented from turning. For this purpose I insert a screw, e, Fig.3, into the steel button f, which is attached to D D... The head of this screw, overlapping the end of the mortise, receives the wedge and checks it. By turning this screw the force of the wedge may be tempered. In fig. 5 g is a spring-latch on the under side of the key, which catches upon D when the key is forced in and prevents its accidental removal."
 
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