185 grn Silvertips junk as a .45 defense round??

The silvertip isnt bad but it would not be my first choice.My carry load is the 230gr +p sxt from winchester. I know that they are hard to get in the states so if I couldnt find them next best would be the 230gr Gold Dot.The nice thing about 45 is that it works okay with anything that fits in the chamber.
 
groundhogs aren't built like people.. they have dense gristle and sinew across thier shoulders like MANY burrowing and rooting animals do. Depending on WHERE the critter was shot, its possible the bullet just did not have the energy to do the job. (imagine it like this if you gut shoot it we can call it 10% gelatin eqiv.. if you shoot it in that gristle it may be more like 30%, much more dense tissue) Sounds to me like a case of BAD SHOT PLACEMENT.. and not understanding the physiology of your quarry.

ST's feed more reliably because of the rounded olgive.. if it works in your pistol.. use it.

I've NEVER heard anyone call a 185 gr. bullet fired out of a 45 a "wussy" round. Ask yourself WOULD YOU want to be on the reciving end??

Dr.Rob
 
re "...Kinda curious what a varmint at about 8lbs has to do with self-defense performance of ammunition? Not many 8lb thugs out there. A typical example of nonsense in gun rags."

Uh-- i think it's called "irony" and "humor".

Personally, I say in the house on Groundhog day. You can't be too safe. ;)
 
Shawn- At the risk of sounding like a "FNG", do those stats suggest it is a decent round or not acceptable? :confused:

Grape

[This message has been edited by grapeshad (edited February 10, 2000).]
 
There's darn little bad ammo for the 45 ACP,and even a bad 45 load works better than most medium caliber loads.And the ST's record shows it's far from bad.

My pet GM LIKES the 185 gr ST, and has enough less gee whiz to it to drop the chance of overpenetration a bit. BTW, the 200 gr SWC reloads shoot same POA at 15 yards,close enough for me.

If it works for you and your GM, or Glock or whatever, use it...
 
My agency used to use this load, and we found a few things. It performed well on skinny people wearing t-shirts, and it sucked if any kind of penetration was needed. Due to the rounds poor performance in instances where some penetration was needed we have since gone to 230gr JHP's from either Federal or Winchester (it changes with various contracts). The formula that we have had the best success with is the heaviest bullet in any caliber driven at a moderate velocity.
 
Nyeti said:
"It performed well on skinny people wearing t-shirts."

-Duh, so just shoot THOSE people and you'd have a 100% OSS rating! I think we found a new WONDERROUND!!

and

"The formula that we have had the best success with is the heaviest bullet in any caliber driven at a moderate velocity."

-This sounds suspiciously just like Shawn Dodson. He may be posing as Nyeti, or vice versa. Someone launch an investigation.

I am, of course, just joking. :-)

Dave
 
Bullet weight really doesn't matter very much as long as it consistently and reliably penetrates between 12 and 16 inches, in my opinion. The newer medium weight bullets are demonstrating pretty good terminal penetration performance. Heck, if a 135gr JHP in .45 ACP penetrated between 12 and 16 inches, I wouldn't have a problem with it unless it fragmented or exhibited runaway expansion.

I don't think there's any one suitable general-purpose JHP cartridge for the G30. Remington GS 185gr +P is probably the closest, but it too, will suffer expansion failures and overpenetrate from time to time. If I carried a G30, it would probably be the load I'd choose for it.

A 200gr Speer Gold Dot bullet loaded by either ProLoad or Georgia Arms is a great summer load, and a 185gr +P Speer Gold Dot loaded by either ProLoad or Georgia Arms would make a good winter load. However, I haven't found a load yet for the G30 that won't suffer intermittent expansion failures and overpenetration when heavy clothing is encountered.

Now a G27 loaded with Remington GS 165gr is a superb combination. Terminal performance averages about 12-14 inches in both bare and denim covered gelatin. While there are die-hard .45 ACP fans out there, a G27 loaded with 165gr bullets is a much better choice than a G30, in my humble opinion.

------------------
/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
 
Shawn,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I've tested Winchester 185gr
Silvertip with a Glock 30.
Penetration in bare gelatin was less than 10 inches. Penetration in denim covered gelatin was 18+ inches.[/quote]

How much difference in penetration, in your opinion, would an extra 100-150fps from the Silvertip make?

Checking a Glock annual... here are velocity differences between the G30 & G21.

load- CorBon 185gr JHP +P
G21 4.6" barrel 1218fps
G30 3.8" barrel 1088fps
vel diff = 130fps

------------------
BKs Pistol Pages
 
that silvertip penetrated the groundhog but it didn't exit. thats what I don't like about the ST, it's lack of penetration. The 200gr+P Pro Load is the best round made for your G30, it has a Gold Dot on top and it'll get the job done right.
 
I remember when the Super Vel 185 JHP and the Winchester Silvertip was the ammo of choice. There wasn't much else around in duty ammo other than 230 gr hardball. The saying used to be that "I play ball with Harball". But these days there is much better ammo available. I still carry a .45acp on duty and I use Federal 230 grain Hydra Shock hollow points, but its usually in a Glock 21 rather than my 1911, that I carried for so many years.

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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.
 
Super-Vel.? (making sign of the cross)
I have a full box of original 185 grainers.
Muzzle flash from your elbows to your knees.
I should chrony some. They sure were
impressive and all in nice nickel cases.
 
I have no clue who Shawn Dodson is, but its not me. The reason we stopped using the 185 STHP's is that it didn't fit all our needs even though it was 100% on skinny people in T-Shirts. I'll stick with what I have seen in the shooting investigations that I have personally been involved with and aren't "urban legends". I posted what I have personally seen. If you want to carry wonder load of the week that your option-Have fun.
 
I have conducted some (very unscientific) tests of my own in wet phone book medium, from a 5" Colt Govt. and the 165gr.+P Corbon only penetrated 4.75", and the 230gr. Federal Hydra-Shok Penetrated 6". Now, I don't know how much penetration you would get in a real life shooting, but I certainly would give the edge to the 230gr. If I were going to be using a short barreled .45 (3.5" or 4"), I probably would try something in 200 gr+P, but not any lighter than 185gr.

------------------
THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE RIGHT JOB
 
Shoot what you like and what feeds the best. Many of the compact .45s with a ramped barrel prefer lighter bullets. I'd go for total reliability ahead of guessing about terminal performance. I carry 230 grain Hydra-Shoks.
 
folks, don't forget that a long-lived design like the Silvertip has likely been tweaked here and there over the years. plus the powder charge may have been changed as better powders have become available. the performance in 1980 and 2000 may be substantially different.

I look forward to reading how many volunteers 12-34hom gets, and how many walk away under their own power.
 
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