124 vs 147 grain HP 9mm ?
- Thread starter pilpens
- Start date
Heresy. Absolute heresy.
It's very simple. We all know that the 9mm simply will not kill anything. While it may cause some surface irritation, and possibly induce an infection, it is not a tenable self-defense loading. The only reason our military uses it is because ammo is cheap, and it's compatible with what the Dutch or whoever are using.
If I absolutely had to trust my life to such a meager loading, I would likely choose the 115gr or 124gr loadings. I know of no current factory handgun sighted in for 147gr, and some will have problems cycling it. You should be practicing with something that prints reasonably close to the same POI as your defensive ammunition, and there's not much 147gr ball out there.
(Oh, and all but the last two sentences are in jest
)bamaranger
New member
147 v. 124
When my outfit went from round guns to flat ones, the universal transition pistol was a SiG P228 and the issue load was the 9mm 147 gr JHP.
Stories began to circulate immediately and one was that the 147 JHP was never intended as a pistol ctg but was for use in suppressed sub guns, namely the MP-5. Unknown if there was truth to this or not.
What was pretty evident was that in the use of the 9mm for finishing off deer, in deer v. car MVA's and dealing with an occasional feral domestic animal, the 9mm/147 from the stubby P228 seemed weak. Sorry, the agency does not have a lot of shootings v. felons.
When the opportunity came to "upgrade" from the transitional 9mm, to either .40 or .45, a huge percentage of personnel did, mostly to .40, the old guard to .45.
The 147 ammo largely disappeared as it was shot up in quals and training, and those few that retained the 9mm switched to 115 or 124.
When my outfit went from round guns to flat ones, the universal transition pistol was a SiG P228 and the issue load was the 9mm 147 gr JHP.
Stories began to circulate immediately and one was that the 147 JHP was never intended as a pistol ctg but was for use in suppressed sub guns, namely the MP-5. Unknown if there was truth to this or not.
What was pretty evident was that in the use of the 9mm for finishing off deer, in deer v. car MVA's and dealing with an occasional feral domestic animal, the 9mm/147 from the stubby P228 seemed weak. Sorry, the agency does not have a lot of shootings v. felons.
When the opportunity came to "upgrade" from the transitional 9mm, to either .40 or .45, a huge percentage of personnel did, mostly to .40, the old guard to .45.
The 147 ammo largely disappeared as it was shot up in quals and training, and those few that retained the 9mm switched to 115 or 124.
Ranger T 127gr +P+ JHP, Corbon DPX load...
In 9x19mm or 9mmNATO, I'd say the top pick for general carry/duty/protection is the highly rated Winchester Ranger T 127gr +P+ JHP. My local PD(around 900 sworn LE officers) uses the 127gr JHP 9mm load for their "new" SIG P226 sidearms.
As for the posted topic, I'd choose the 124gr load. It has similar ballistics & recoil or milspec training-practice rounds or carry/duty rounds.
Many like the 147gr designs, but I'd select a 124gr +P or maybe a 115gr +P+ JHP. CorBon/DPX, DoubleTap Ammo, Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber(bonded) all have great 9x19mm loads available to the general public.
In 9x19mm or 9mmNATO, I'd say the top pick for general carry/duty/protection is the highly rated Winchester Ranger T 127gr +P+ JHP. My local PD(around 900 sworn LE officers) uses the 127gr JHP 9mm load for their "new" SIG P226 sidearms.
As for the posted topic, I'd choose the 124gr load. It has similar ballistics & recoil or milspec training-practice rounds or carry/duty rounds.
Many like the 147gr designs, but I'd select a 124gr +P or maybe a 115gr +P+ JHP. CorBon/DPX, DoubleTap Ammo, Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber(bonded) all have great 9x19mm loads available to the general public.
Tom Servo wrote:
Well everbody has one ... an opinion. I note that the 'Jello shooters' have pretty much concluded that the main 'Service' calibers, 9mm, .357 sig, .40, and .45acp are all pretty equal if the right loading is used.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
My thought is to practice what you have chosen to use and stop trying to justify ones choice. The four seem pretty equal. My personal choice is one step up, a .357 magnum, or .44 Special ... but then there are those that will cast negative spells on those two.
Bottom line seems to me to pick what you are comfortable with and shoot well, and then practice, practice, practice.
Well everbody has one ... an opinion. I note that the 'Jello shooters' have pretty much concluded that the main 'Service' calibers, 9mm, .357 sig, .40, and .45acp are all pretty equal if the right loading is used.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
My thought is to practice what you have chosen to use and stop trying to justify ones choice. The four seem pretty equal. My personal choice is one step up, a .357 magnum, or .44 Special ... but then there are those that will cast negative spells on those two.
Bottom line seems to me to pick what you are comfortable with and shoot well, and then practice, practice, practice.
Mike Irwin
Staff
The newest generation of 147s are showing the ability to expand well at the velocities at which they're fired.
Many modern bullets have been designed specifically in the velocity range in which that cartridge/bullet weight combination traditionally operates.
It used to be that getting a bullet to expand when fired from a 2" .38 Special was hard to virtually impossible.
New designs, however, show excellent expansion capabilities.
Some months ago I fired some Speer Gold Dot 135 +Ps out of my 2" J frame at a water-filled garbage can.
Based on what I was seeing, out of 7 shots, penetration would have been in the 18 to 20" range, and expansion was perfect.
I also fired several rounds into a dirt bank, and recovered two. Expansion on those was also perfect.
Many modern bullets have been designed specifically in the velocity range in which that cartridge/bullet weight combination traditionally operates.
It used to be that getting a bullet to expand when fired from a 2" .38 Special was hard to virtually impossible.
New designs, however, show excellent expansion capabilities.
Some months ago I fired some Speer Gold Dot 135 +Ps out of my 2" J frame at a water-filled garbage can.
Based on what I was seeing, out of 7 shots, penetration would have been in the 18 to 20" range, and expansion was perfect.
I also fired several rounds into a dirt bank, and recovered two. Expansion on those was also perfect.