12 Hydrogen Bombs Part 2

For most "modern" nations placing an economic embargo on China would be more devastating to the nation rather than China. They manufacture a lot of goods that we consume. If those manufacturing operationsd have to come back to the USA, Germany... costs would sky rocket and we'd be a good candidate for a recession. This is why we'll probably do nothing. There is less at stake in not doing anything that in doing something. The Administratin can always take the stand that we should not be playing global cop, just like the people want. Chances are that it would be an economic advantage to have the Communists take over Taiwan. Like I said before, there will be an outcry from the world, but few if any will act. If the PRC is serious they will take Taiwan. It may cost them, but that is not of much concern to the central committee. They are already aware that their country is vastly over populated, hence the 2 kids max rules and such, and would probably welcome a way to kill off a few hundred thousand people. Begining with all the dissidents they can round up and turn into cannon fodder. It would be nice if Taiwan could, as DC put it, light'em up and glass'em over for us. In most likelyhood it will be some form of deal. The Commies promise to keep the people in power rich and powerful and the Taiwaneese people will be sold into slavery.
 
Well! i`m new here and not a military stratigest, but I don`t think that China taking Tiawan will do any thing more than making them more aggresive than they are now. I don`t care to go to war with them, but if they are left unchecked, you will find them at our bottom door ( Pannama Canal) ready to launch Nucks at us ( Not to say they havent already threatened) that somebodys President of this United States of Amercia sold our most top secrets to. I say stop them now. If we dont we will have to face them later and it will be much worse. I don`t want to see Necular war, but something needs to stop them.
 
Nuclear, short version Nukes.
If you like you can just say H-Bombs.
They dont have to be near Panama to launch nuclear ordinance. That could be done quite easily from just about anywhere within range... and thats one of the problems. We dont know exactly what China's nuclear capability is.
MANPNDs could be on US soil right now in the hands of PRC agents... ready to do some serious internal structural damage.
Should we go to war with China - it would be very ugly - with the potential of making WWII look like a sporting event.
 
A goverenment report currently circulating in Washingtom DC says that the efficency of the Taiwanese armed forces is much lower than previos administration reports have stated. One major problem cited is lack of mofern weapons in key areas.
Taiwan has presented the US goverenmeny with a list of key items they are eager tp buy from thw US, but so far the admonistration has turned them down, fearing that US sales would anger maonland China.
 
The popular reaction is take China out now! However, with our current political "leaders" there's no way in hell our military could take on a major war. Our forces are so depleted from Comrade Klinton that a major war will be VERY UGLY. Hell, they'd probably call me back onto active duty. Now, the military we had when Regan was prez, that's a different story. Klinton needs to go before you can even consider war with China. He's a national security risk.

Svt
1911 Addiction
"Rangers Lead the Way!"
 
Sadly, if we do intervene with the PRC's plans and it does not go Nucular nobody is going to have to call anybody back into service cause we will be doing a considerable amount of fighting right here. With the PRC in control of the Panama Canal we cant reinforce the West coast and Pacific fast enough to head off any concerted effort to land troups on the CONUS. The state of our military is rather poor and spread far to thin to be able to go into any hard nosed fight quickly. This is a state that will take YEARS to fix so if we get caught up in any type of "real" fight there is a good posssibility that we would be fighting on our own soil for the first time in a while.

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"Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes."
-R.A. Heinlein
 
Hypothetical situation: you are sitting in your yard, and a 500-lb man walks up and says, "I'm going to take your neighbor's place, and if you interfere, I'm gonna kill you."

What would you do? This is what's happening, only on a national level.

Nuke 'em. I would use a high percentage of whatever ERW's are currently in our arsenal. If we don't have many, I would do an emergency buildup, and attack in 6 mos, when we have more. I would also land surface elements immediately behind ERW strikes, to capture (relatively) high-tech weaponry the ChiComs possess. I would probably leave some few areas (population centers?) untouched , with a msg: Threaten the US again, and you won't be able to step anywhere on Chinese soil without burning your foot.
 
Hard Ball says, "The moral of this story is that it doesn't always pay to sell out your allies and try to appease your enemy."

If only gun owners and other believers in freedom believed that we could repeal every gun control policy ever implemented.
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Note that Chinese shipping circles the globe. How many of those ships could be portable missile sites?

Do the Chinese yet realize that unlimited manpower no longer can win a world war? They spook me. They are cunning and patient - dangerous qualities....
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Note that Chinese shipping circles the globe. How many of those ships could be portable missile sites?[/quote]

Or troop carriers, or VTOL carriers, or Q Ships...
(Q Ships - used during WWII... They were typical commercial type ships that looked passive to suck in Uboats to attack them - then once in range the Q ships seemed to suddenly brisle with guns and pounded the Uboats to Davie Jones's locker. This could be adapted to Ship to Ship/shore missles Surface to Air missles...)
 
When I posted this topic originallt. I called it "12 hydrogen bombs can ruin your whole day" because open sources said the Chinese had 12 ICBMs capable of striking the US on launchers ready to be fired on short notice.
The latest ingormation credits them with 20 ready and 4 more nearly on line. If this discussion continues we will have to change the topic to "24 hydrogen bombs can ruin your whole week."
 
Some recent information on the military balance between mainland China and Taiwan indicates that the Chinese have 70 to 80 SU 27 jet fighters purchased from Russia. The SU 27 have better radar and better long rance missiles than Taiwan's F16s which are the best fighters in Taiwan's air force. This means that in a one on one confrontation China could probably achieve air superiority over Taiwan making a succesfuk invasion from the mainland much more likely.
 
Hard Ball, pilot skill is about 70% of air combat. The real question is, what is the relative skill level of the ROC vs PRC pilots?

Secondly, SAMs and AAA cause most airplane kills. How well situated is ROC for these two defensive systems?
 
Ivanhoe:
It's hard to evaluate pilot skill on each side. The SU27 is avery formidable aircraft. Some authorities believe it is superior to the current USAF first line fighter the F15C Eagle.
When you compare the SU 27 to the F16 you find that the SU27 has better radar and longer ranged air-to-air missiles. Tawainese F16 pilots must survive a missile attack before closing in to dog fight range where superior pilot skill counts the most and, even then. an SU27 is a very formidable dog fighter.
As to Taiwan's SAM defenses, I know that they have some early US Hawk and Nike missiles, but I don't know how many or which versions. I will see what I can find out.
 
In the 50s the Chinat pilots were arguably the best in the world. Trained, practiced, dedicated, disciplined and encouraged to treat each situation as unique and to think for themselves while contributing to the whole. While flying outdated F86-Ds, they made mincemeat out of the ( then ) state of the art MIGs of the Chicoms, flown by communist Chinese and Russian pilots.

When the commies were shelling Quemoy and Matsu, we had a large portion of the 7th fleet in the Formosa Straits ready to drop lots of nukes, luckily the Chinats prevailed and we did not go into the glass making business. Even tho we lost quite a few aircraft in that area, we " never " took part in that fracas.

If the Nationalist Chinese have maintained their esprit de corps, they will be hard to beat.

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev!." We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism, until they suddenly awake to find they have communism."
 
Ivanhoe:
Regarding your question concerning what surface to air missiles Taiwan currently has in inventory, they have reitred their Nike SAMs.
They nwe operate three batteries of Patriot SAMs which have some ant missile capability) and 20 batteries of HAWK SAMs which. if their anti jam capabilites have been kept up to date, are effective against low flyong aircraft.
 
The administration today refused to allow Taiwan to buy four Arliegh Burke guided missile destroyers to bolster their navy against the build up of the Chinese fleet. The administration does not want to "antagonize China" by "upsetting the naval balance' by selling Taiwan modern guided missile destroyers. Mainland China has already taken delivery of four modern guided missile destroyers they bought from Russia.
 
Sorry, can't agree with some assesments here. PRC has no shot whatsoever at physically taking Formosa. Less than zero. ROC has been digging and preparing for over 50 yrs. Their backs are to the wall, and they reportedly have every square meter of water and beach front pre-registered into thousands of tubes of towed and fortified artillery. The air force has hundreds of F-16's (block 30's, NOT old A models), Cheng Du F-16 knock-offs, and Mirage 2000 advanced C variants. Army and Navy have thousands of sea-skimmer anti-ship missiles, knock-offs of Israeli and S. African designs. PRC has WAY too few amphib assets to land enough troops. They recently threatened to use "fishing boats" (!) to effect the invasion. Know what patrol boats and larger combattants, to say nothing of air assets and mines (of which their are a ****load, can do. Sorry, PRC has NO shot of "taking" Taiwan. Now harrassing it and "rattling" them with missile and air skirmishis is another story. PS- US Navy air and sub fleets would make em pay dearly. Chinese are a mean dog in "People's War", light invantry and human wave stuff. In moder airland battlefield, they are just alot of meat for the chili sauce.
 
PRC?

Attack on USA: By air, negligible threat. They have TWO major enemies. They fear the Bear at their Back as much as the Eagle they'll face.

By Land, there's a lot of ocean to cross, and a lot of submariners who would enjoy the practice.

Attack on the Island? No prob, nuke em til they glow, then use their asses for runway lights.

Any threat to the USA by the PRC is made with them having one eye out for the Russians, and that's one party we could give that the Russians would LOVE to crash. (Not to mention, it would help both Russia and America to bring their nuke arsenals down to required levels.

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When guns are outlawed, I will be an outlaw.
 
Doesn't China have a lawful right to Taiwan? Hasn't that always been the agreement? Why are we letting Taiwan out of this? Am I missing something?
 
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