12 ga. Home Defense Shell?

CharlesBronson

New member
Hello...could someone recommend a good home defense shell for a 12 ga semi automatic shotgun?

JTS AK-T1 18" 12 GAUGE SHOTGUN 3" SEMI-AUTO, BLACK - M12AK-T1



I'm looking for recommendations that take into account over penetration or...I'm looking for a round that won't shoot through a wall and kill a friendly...or...if it did shoot through 1 wall...it wouldn't kill a person.

I'm thinking 2 3/4 #8 Birdshot - any thoughts? Thank you in advance!


Interesting Video...
https://youtu.be/zaR1EVybUgc

Another Interesting Video...
https://youtu.be/gq3RVvL9ZjU
 
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Birdshot isn't it. Look for #1 or #4 Buckshot if you are worried about over-penetration, and then see which brand patterns better in your gun. Federal w/ flight control wad has set the bar pretty high for tight patterns with buckshot.
 
I've purchased a box of the below...just to do some testing.

I believe the below is what they are referring to...2 3/4, 1 1/8 oz, STS 12 GA Birdshot #8



 
That stuff is great for trap shooting, and I used to have the re-loaders buy the hulls from me for $0.10 a piece. But it is not going to do what you want against humans.
 
That stuff is great for trap shooting, and I used to have the re-loaders buy the hulls from me for $0.10 a piece. But it is not going to do what you want against humans.
I'm not disagreeing with you...bottom line...I don't know enough to disagree with you but...how do you respond to the 2 videos I posted in my original post?
 
I really wish I would have started getting into this stuff (guns and hunting) years ago but...now I'm 50 and just starting. Oh sure, I know a little...I was in the Navy and was on the security force and had to qualify on the M14, Mossberg Pump and 1911 but...I really don't know much. I've owned a Browning A5 12 GA for years and have killed a deer but didn't dress it. :confused::confused::confused: Oh well...hope an old dog can be taught new ticks...lol

Oh...and the deer I killed...I think was suicidal or something!
 
He had as he said 8-10 pellets make it into the heart. Those are tiny pellets that are going to take a while for the person to bleed out from. Also, in the penetration tests of drywall he was not shooting through a human first.


#4 Buck is (I don't remember for certain) but I want to say 24 pellets, and they cut a much bigger hole than #8 shot. If you feel more comfortable with #8 shot, that is your journey, and no, no one wants to be hit with it, I won't go smaller than #4 buck.
 
For SD, you want slugs or buck.

For mag fed autoloaders, you want smooth, not skived, hulls. They are finicky and what runs in one might not run in a sister gun.

#4 Buck with buffered shot is typically the least finicky in auto-loaders, so that is where I would start. I'd pick up a few boxes and try them before you get too involved.
 
He had as he said 8-10 pellets make it into the heart. Those are tiny pellets that are going to take a while for the person to bleed out from. Also, in the penetration tests of drywall he was not shooting through a human first.


#4 Buck is (I don't remember for certain) but I want to say 24 pellets, and they cut a much bigger hole than #8 shot. If you feel more comfortable with #8 shot, that is your journey, and no, no one wants to be hit with it, I won't go smaller than #4 buck.

Thank you sir! This is all great information and I really appreciate it!
 
For SD, you want slugs or buck.

For mag fed autoloaders, you want smooth, not skived, hulls. They are finicky and what runs in one might not run in a sister gun.

#4 Buck with buffered shot is typically the least finicky in auto-loaders, so that is where I would start. I'd pick up a few boxes and try them before you get too involved.

I understand finicky! I've been testing various ammo on my S&W M&P 15-22 and it's been a journey! Fun tho :-)
 
Sparknotes version… birdshot is for birds and clays. Unless you have a group of either of those attacking you… don’t use birdshot.

I understand the overpenetration argument… but if that’s your concern, maybe consider something different. Jeff Quinn was a good guy, and definitely sad that he passed away. Paul Harrell… good guy. However, I do agree with him, birdshot isn’t going to blow thru walls. But what happens with that when you shoot someone? I disagree with him… why? How many people have been hit with birdshot and not died? Remember that shooting with Dick Cheney? 78 year old guy hit in the upper torso and face… out of the hospital in three days. Guy is still alive, and quickly looking… is 94.

That being said, if a 78 year old lived… what’s going to happen to the 28 year old meth head, breaking in your house. When you hit him, he staggers and comes at you… are you going to put another round into him (see below)?

Hell, look at history… L/E moved away from 9mm because a round stopped short of a suspect’s heart, who in turn killed two FBI agents after that. Same wound was fatal, and if he surrendered… likely would have died on the way to the hospital. That gave way to the .40 revolution, and that literally just ended in the past few years (I have/shoot .40 only because locally, our F/I is trying to get rid of the old duty ammo, and an off duty gun is a legitimate way to do so). While I get overpenetration… I think you really should do an alternative method of alleviating that instead of a poor weapon/ammo choice. .22 Short doesn’t overpenetrate… but I don’t suggest we all use .22 Short for defense. While it seems apples/oranges, it is very similar of an argument to using birdshot.

Other ways to combat overpenetration? My old home was a ranch… had bedrooms at one end, with a hallway heading down near the entrance ways. If someone broke in, I wasn’t prancing thru the house… hunting him/them down. I’m getting in that hallway and have an 870 Police loaded with Winchester PDX1 (slug with three 00 buckshot behind it). Anyone I don’t want to shoot was with me… and if someone came towards us… boom! I had neighbors, but had a stone wood burning stove as backstop.

New house, similar method… even though weapons changed (ME is freer than NJ). Second floor, sit in the edge of the staircase, and keep people away from those upstairs. If I feel like it is tactically advantageous to go downstairs… I may, but I’m making sure those upstairs are protected. I don’t need a shotgun when I have a (soon to be) suppressed 9mm AR pistol.

For a semi-auto shotgun… you are going to be iffy if it will cycle certain loads. That low brass you linked, I’m going to go with a no. Definitely consider that before making your decision. I’d also add that box magazines and shotgun shells aren’t the best match. Stacked in a tube, they don’t deform… and I’ve confirmed that multiple times. Stacking on top of each other in a box… you’ll see them start to egg out. How quick and how long before your shotgun won’t feed them… your guess is as good as mine. Again, something to really consider.

I understand finicky! I've been testing various ammo on my S&W M&P 15-22 and it's been a journey! Fun tho :-)

CCI… my M&P15/22 pistol runs awesomely reliable with it. Cannot wait to put a can on that, as well.
 
I have #4 buck shot in mine. Never shot it in the house, but at 25 yards all 9 pellets where in a man sized target.
 
Sparknotes version… birdshot is for birds and clays. Unless you have a group of either of those attacking you… don’t use birdshot.

I understand the overpenetration argument… but if that’s your concern, maybe consider something different. Jeff Quinn was a good guy, and definitely sad that he passed away. Paul Harrell… good guy. However, I do agree with him, birdshot isn’t going to blow thru walls. But what happens with that when you shoot someone? I disagree with him… why? How many people have been hit with birdshot and not died? Remember that shooting with Dick Cheney? 78 year old guy hit in the upper torso and face… out of the hospital in three days. Guy is still alive, and quickly looking… is 94.

That being said, if a 78 year old lived… what’s going to happen to the 28 year old meth head, breaking in your house. When you hit him, he staggers and comes at you… are you going to put another round into him (see below)?

Hell, look at history… L/E moved away from 9mm because a round stopped short of a suspect’s heart, who in turn killed two FBI agents after that. Same wound was fatal, and if he surrendered… likely would have died on the way to the hospital. That gave way to the .40 revolution, and that literally just ended in the past few years (I have/shoot .40 only because locally, our F/I is trying to get rid of the old duty ammo, and an off duty gun is a legitimate way to do so). While I get overpenetration… I think you really should do an alternative method of alleviating that instead of a poor weapon/ammo choice. .22 Short doesn’t overpenetrate… but I don’t suggest we all use .22 Short for defense. While it seems apples/oranges, it is very similar of an argument to using birdshot.

Other ways to combat overpenetration? My old home was a ranch… had bedrooms at one end, with a hallway heading down near the entrance ways. If someone broke in, I wasn’t prancing thru the house… hunting him/them down. I’m getting in that hallway and have an 870 Police loaded with Winchester PDX1 (slug with three 00 buckshot behind it). Anyone I don’t want to shoot was with me… and if someone came towards us… boom! I had neighbors, but had a stone wood burning stove as backstop.

New house, similar method… even though weapons changed (ME is freer than NJ). Second floor, sit in the edge of the staircase, and keep people away from those upstairs. If I feel like it is tactically advantageous to go downstairs… I may, but I’m making sure those upstairs are protected. I don’t need a shotgun when I have a (soon to be) suppressed 9mm AR pistol.

For a semi-auto shotgun… you are going to be iffy if it will cycle certain loads. That low brass you linked, I’m going to go with a no. Definitely consider that before making your decision. I’d also add that box magazines and shotgun shells aren’t the best match. Stacked in a tube, they don’t deform… and I’ve confirmed that multiple times. Stacking on top of each other in a box… you’ll see them start to egg out. How quick and how long before your shotgun won’t feed them… your guess is as good as mine. Again, something to really consider.



CCI… my M&P15/22 pistol runs awesomely reliable with it. Cannot wait to put a can on that, as well.

GREAT post! I wasn't even thinking about what the magazine will do to the shells over time...something I'll have to test at the range this weekend (I have some dove shells in a mag at the moment).

As for the 15-22...yep...I've been having good luck with CCI Standard Velocity.

Also had good success with Remington Brass Plated Hollow Points - Golden Bullet, 36 grams, 1,280 fps but...should have...it's a higher end round...lol.

I have 2 Mossberg 715T's...I'm still working those out. Definitely not the quality rifle the 15-22 is!
 
When I was working, and I've carried some of these habits forward into my retirement regarding shotgun ammo.

We were issued 00 buck and 1 oz. slugs. With the micro-managers writing policies, we were also told to load the 00 buck into the mag tube, with the slugs stored for an alternative round. Some of us thought this loading status should have been reversed (slugs in mag tube; then 00 buck as the spare/alternate ammo) or to just let each LEO decide for themselves.

In another department where I worked, we were only issued 00 buck, but a supervisor (Sergeant) supposedly was allowed to carry slugs within his patrol car or on his person. I never understood that practice/policy, if it was even in writing.

There will be decisions and tactics to consider in a shooting. If there's some doubt there may be "innocents" beyond the threat and you're unsure you can definitely hit that threat, that may be a good reason not to take the shot. Can you get low and shoot upward(?); can you get to higher ground and shoot downward(?); will a single slug projectile be somehow safer than the spread of 8 or 9 pellets(?); what will be the distance to threat and what will be the expected shot spread(?); all considerations which might be in your head, even though subconsciously being considered in a fraction of a second.

When I practice, I'll typically use 12 gauge 7.5 shot for shooting, and loading manipulations, but I'm usually fairly close and only destroying cardboard/paper. For distances over ~15 yards is when I'll need to transition to shooting the 1 oz. slugs as the 00 buck pattern tends to spread enough to possibly miss a human sized target depending on how a given brand/model of 00 buck patterned/spread and at what distance.

There are many factors/considerations but it's good to be considering what ammo to buy/use.
 
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