10MM or 357 mag

dajowi "...relatively rare semi-autos."
Coonan is now producing its .357 semi-auto again.
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Yes, that's correct. Some the knee-jerk responses here indicate that certain dudenals need to do at least a bit of casual research before posting. :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for reminding me. I do own a 10mm. Even if it is Short & Weak. :D

Using standard load data and comparable barrel lengths the .357 doesn't really out shine .40 or 10mm.

A 155 GDHP over 9 grains of Power Pistol gets you over 500 ft/lb in a 4" .40 S&W.

A 4" .357 will get well over 500 ft/lb (almost 600 in some cases) but measured from the breech face this is actually a longer barrel.

Comparing a 5" auto to a 4" revolver, you've got about a dead heat in roughly comparable handguns.

Edit to add chrono results:

Shot some .40s over the chrony today. 155gr XTPs over a slightly less than max charge of Power Pistol. 5" barrel M&P M2.0

1278
1304
1300
1275
1261
AV. 1283 fps
M.E. 567 ft/lb

Short and Weak indeed. No bulging or other drama. What it won't do is move heavier bullets the way a real 10mm will. I'm OK with that.
 
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I love my blued Delta Elite from the late '80s/early '90s. I reload so ammo is not an issue and I'm already a fan of the 1911.

I also love my 2.5" 686+, but for whatever reason, I never felt the same way about my old 4" 686-4. I sacrifice a lot of velocity with the shorter barrel, but it handles so much better. I carry conceal with it every now and then.

I'd be hard pressed to choose between the two, but I would say that it depends on what I intend to do with it. Obviously, the DE is a better hunting gun if you factor in the longer barrel over my 686+, but I feel the .357/.38spl is a much better option for EDC or SD/HD.
 
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This is my experience with 10MM and .357

I have a G29, a Delta Elite, and a Ruger SP101 with the 3" barrel.

I really enjoy the Delta Elite and the SP101 more than the Glock.

If I had to chose one of the three, and logically defend my decision, it would be the G29. Granted the Delta Elite would be the one I would chose (its an emotional choice) but logically the G29 should be the choice.
 
Attempting to have "apples to apples" comparison.
4'' revolver doesn't include the chamber whereas a pistol does, so a 4.5'' pistol is roughly equivalent.
Less barrel length than OP guns, but comparison is valid.
Videos by the same maker.

10mm Underwood 165 Gold Dot from 4.5'' barrel @ 1,450 fps = 770# KE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHYEhGlw87M

357 Mag Underwood 158 Gold Dot from 4'' barrel @ 1,213 fps = 516# KE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjHg26zycWg&t=56s

Fair comparison, 10mm has 23% more KE with a heavier, larger bullet

Wanna go heavier? 180 gr.
Difficult to get same make ammo, but here are two "regular / off the shelf" loads, not "cherry picking".

10mm Hornady 180 XTP @ 1,261 fps = 636# KE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2Wal92qOX8

357 Magnum Remington 180 SJHP @ 1,193 fps = 569# KE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzrxHjX7eWo

Again, the 10mm has more power.
 
Revolvers lose some pressure to the cylinder gap where autos don't. Comparing a 357 from a contender and a semi-auto with the same barrel may be a better test of the ammo but those of us who use revolvers deal with the gap. My 140 JHP ammo gets 1464 fps with a 4" barrel. Comparing that to a mid-weight bullet from a 10mm may show that the 10 mm has an advantage. First, the bore is larger which at the same pressure produces more force to the bullet.
However, the 135grain JHP in 10mm has 50 fps lower velocity than the 140 grain in 357 according to the Sierra manual (5th edition 6th printing)

Even at that I believe the 10mm is probably the more powerful round on paper. The difference in real defensive shooting is going to be minimal with the exception of the number of rounds available.
 
My 140 JHP ammo gets 1464 fps with a 4" barrel. Comparing that to a mid-weight bullet from a 10mm may show that the 10 mm has an advantage. First, the bore is larger which at the same pressure produces more force to the bullet.
However, the 135grain JHP in 10mm has 50 fps lower velocity than the 140 grain in 357 according to the Sierra manual (5th edition 6th printing)
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Underwood 135 gr. Nosler from stock Glock 20 @ 1,594 fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkUm7iegNbM
 
Again, the 10mm has more power
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Not only that (in a fair comparison), but the heavy 10mm bullets (200gns and up) also have a wider surface diameter - which matters at real 10mm impact velocities on animals, ... 4-legged or 2-legged. ;)
 
Not to pick on the .357 but comparing overall lengths, a new 4" Model 66 is still over an inch longer than a 5" M&P .40. So the most equal comparison may be a 5" auto to a 3" revolver.

The .357 can do great things but a longer barrel is almost a prerequisite.
 
There's only one way to settle this. I shoot you with my 10mm and then you get your turn with your 357. Or I can start with the 357, either way I bet the argument would end without you "speaking your piece".
 
.357 Mag or 10 mm = Big Boom = Happy jad0110 :p

This one is real simple. I like both.

That said, I don't own any 10mms. I have .357s and .44s, so I feel pretty well covered.

Plus, for me the 10mm is a reloaders round and I appreciate the fact that my .357 and .44 wheel guns don't puke brass everywhere :o .

As for power, depends on what ammo from what companies etc etc. Last time I looked a few years ago, Buffalo Bore loaded either to within a sneeze of each other, with perhaps a tiny edge to the .357 in their case.

I wouldn't want to be on the business end of either.
 
Again, the 10mm has more power
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....but just slightly. A better comparison to a revolver cartridge would be the .41mag. Which suffers from the same Red-Headed step-child syndrome that the 10mm does. Both are excellent calibers. Both were highly heralded when introduced and both are highly praised by the few folks that own and use them. Both have a loyal following, albeit small. If not for that infamous nationally televised gunfight in 1986, the 10mm might very well be dead right now instead of on life support. In the aftermath of the obvious inefficiency of 9mm to sufficiently penetrate to readily incapacitate, the FBI and other LE agencies realized that magnum like ballistics were needed again for law enforcement. Problem was, high recoil and platforms that didn't fit female and smaller handed male officers. While the round permitted more firepower, it also resulted in poorer accuracy and slower follow up shots. Thus the .40 S&W was born.

The 10mm was designed to be a tad more powerful than the .357. Cooper loved his 1911s and desired a pistol caliber that would effectively reach out past 50 yards and he was successful. If one restricts themselves to auto-loaders it is a very viable option for a handgun with magnum caliber ballistics. Problem for me with the 10mm was and still is, iut's like the .41 mag. It's just another "in-betweener". It's in between .357 and .44 mag for me and just not worth having. For any autoloading handgun application I need, my standard 1911s handle that quite nicely. That does not mean it's not a viable option to others, just that one needs to look at the caliber realistically and compare apples to apples.
 
I don't like the comparison of the 10MM to the .41 Mag. Yes the hottest 10MM rounds are somewhere near the weakest .41 Mag rounds. However the .357 and 10MM line up pretty well from top to bottom when it is all said and done.
 
Not to pick on the .357 but comparing overall lengths, a new 4" Model 66 is still over an inch longer than a 5" M&P .40.

So the most equal comparison may be a 5" auto to a 3" revolver. The .357 can do great things but a longer barrel is almost a prerequisite.
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Bingo !!! Winner, Winner - you get the chicken dinner! :cool: :D

Not only well-said, but it illustrates why all these comparative "revolver cartridge vs. semi-auto cartridge" debates are, typically, meaningless.

They're almost always asymmetrical because accurate barrel-lengths - as between the wheelgun and the autoloader - are never noted or factored-in.

Regardless of the barrel-cylinder gap, magnum revolvers of all stripes quickly surrender significant velocity and energy when their barrels shrink under 4", especially when you're talking about real-world guns that people actually EDC or hike with into the boonies and mountains. Not 6" barreled target guns, nor even Dirty Harry's 6" Model 29.

That's why Ruger and S&W both make 2.5" and 3" magnum handcannons: not for power, but for ease of portability. A .44, .454, or 500S&W is already heavy enough just to safely handle the cartridge's power. Saddling it with a 5", 6", or 7" tube turns it in to a boat-anchor that quickly comes off the hip and gets stuffed inside a backpack, where it's rendered useless for its intended purpose.

One exception to this asymmetry, at least where the ".357 mag v. 10mm" debate is concerned (and you're genuinely interested in comparing apples-to-apples), would be a chronograph test pitting a 357 Coonan autoloader against any 10mm autoloader having the same length barrel, ... and see whose outcomes win the velocity/energy tests.

And no cherry-picking, dudenals ... That means using real (full-throttle) 10mm ammo in the one, and no .38 Special Eds in the Coonan. :D
 
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One exception to this asymmetry, at least where the ".357 mag v. 10mm" debate is concerned (and you're genuinely interested in comparing apples-to-apples), would be a chronograph test pitting a 357 Coonan autoloader against any 10mm autoloader having the same length barrel, ... and see whose outcomes win the velocity/energy tests[/quote[

While this would be interesting it would also be of use only to those intending to compare the two rounds directly in very similar platforms.

As has been noted though we are not really just comparing 10MM vs .357. For instance though I own both the .357 (Ruger SP101 with 3" barrel) I have is likely not comparable to either 10MM. MAYBE the G29 with its shorter barrel but probably not the Delta Elite.

The G29 and .357 to me both represent the pinnacle of "do everything" guns in their categories. Both are capable, though less than ideal, as woods guns and both are capable, though less than ideal, as concealed carry firearms.
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I own a few of both. For me, easy answer...the 10mm in the S&W 610.

If it was between a SA 10mm or a .357 Mag Revolver, I would go with the .357 Mag. With what I do with these two cartridges, the revolver wins. I'd stick with the .41 Mag revolver over either though.
 
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