10m Air Pistol, anyone?

MrBorland

New member
I've always been a big believer in regular dry fire practice at home between range sessions. I've also enjoyed working on basic marksmanship & gun handling skills with an airgun. Given the rising cost of gas and ammo, it makes even more sense.

To further work on marksmanship, I recently bought an IZH-46M 10 meter air pistol, printed some 10m B-40 targets and started shooting ISSF-style in my back yard after getting home from work. Sure, it's helped my shooting at the range, but surprisingly, I've really gotten interested in 10m Air Pistol as a discipline itself. Has anyone else here "discovered" 10m Air as well?
 
Not specifically 10m Air, but I have returned to the airgun fold recently.
Interestingly enough it was due to a critter problem more than the cost and lack of availability of ammo recently.

I very quickly realized that if I were going to cleanly dispatch some of the vermin, I was going to need a powerful, accurate, and reliable airgun for the job. This led me into the world of "mid-grade" airguns and it's been a fascinating trip so far.
 
Air

I started shooting Air pistol matches about 15 years ago. My lovely wife gifted me a Feinwerkbau match pistol. I had no excuses. In the interim, I have picked up the IZH match pistol; it is my back-up gun.
There are competitions all over the country. Contact the NRA for rules and schedules.
Like its big brother, the Free Pistol, precision is the watchword. Air pistol match competition is a game of tens. If you are not shooting 30 tens or more (out of 60 shots) with the rest of them 9s, you are an also ran.
I also run all the time.

Pete

PS - Follow through is incredibly important.
 
I dont have what your talking about but I do have a replica Red Rider. I get decent groups all the way out to ten feet and it knocks over cans at 5.

;)
 
I picked up an airsoft gun that's a pretty close replica of my carry piece. now I can practice in my livingroom.
 
Like its big brother, the Free Pistol, precision is the watchword. Air pistol match competition is a game of tens. If you are not shooting 30 tens or more (out of 60 shots) with the rest of them 9s, you are an also ran.

Yep, those targets are tiny. I'm an also-ran, too. I made rapid progress to low-to-mid expert (roughly 92%), and cockily figured I'd keep right on going to 95%. Hah. Yeah, sure. :o Those few extra percents are tough, and I imagine those above 95 are even tougher. I dry fire and shoot 20- and 40-round "mini-matches" daily, and progress is slow, at best. Every tiny little error is costly, and I seem to make several "tiny little errors" every match. It's deceptively difficult. Maybe that's part of the draw.

I have other air pistols & air rifles I use now and then to get my shooting fix at home. They're all good. But there's just something about that 10m thing...
 
I don't have the concentration required for shooting long enough to do a 10m match justice, but I do enjoy my precision airguns. I use them for things like splitting cards (harder to do with a .177 pellet than a .45 bullet) and pest control.
 
Air

(roughly 92%)
Yep, that's about where I shoot.
The air pistol has a definite and positive effect on my other pistol shooting. Even though precision air is a slow match, even leisurely, its effects are easily seen in other competitions.
Pete
 
The air pistol has a definite and positive effect on my other pistol shooting. Even though precision air is a slow match, even leisurely, its effects are easily seen in other competitions.

I agree 100%. I picked up a Steyr LP50 (world-class 5-shot repeater, for those who may not be familiar) a couple years ago so I could practice the sustained fire stages as well, and set up a little range in my basement so I could practice whenever I had a little spare time. It's made a huge improvement in my bullseye league scores.
 
I was a pretty active air pistol competitor from about '83-'90. My best year was '89. We fired the NRA's national air gun postal match at Ohio State's indoor range that year under the auspices of their team coaches. I placed third in Ohio, which, in turn, placed third nationally. I was shooting the Feinwerkbau 65 then, though I'd have to look up the scores? Not too spectacular by current standards as the sport was still gaining popularity in the U.S. at the time. Also, the CO2 precision guns were not yet widespread, and I don't recall seeing any compressed air guns other than pump pneumatics available back then? The equipment has improved a lot since the spring guns ruled. I know I held a Master classification at the time, but since then they upped the classification percentages and they also changed the target to be slightly smaller, so I don't know where that would land me today? Probably another also-ran.

About that time my local Bullseye league lost its indoor range and so the compliment the airgun shooting made to my bullseye shooting became a less available measure. Moreover, I'd gotten more interested in service rifle matches and was focusing on that. In '92, the last year Jeff Cooper owned Gunsite and the hats were still orange, I, and several friends went out and got ourselves introduced to combat shooting, and that has become more of our pistol practice since then. My only bullseye pistol shooting since has been occasional participation in a .22 league at the University, though I did pick up 4 IEC points with the M9 at the end of the Army's SAFS at Camp Perry three or four years ago.

The main trick in practicing air pistol, as with all skills, is consistency. When I was doing my best I had a 10 meter range in my basement and went down there every day, without fail, to shoot a minimum of 60 rounds, usually all on one target just to see how the gun and I were grouping overall? I found I would have accuracy cycles. I would get a couple of weeks when I just couldn't miss, followed by a couple where the 10 ring seemed to keep dodging the pellets. During the best day in one of the good weeks, I could even hit 10's from goofy positions; back turned to the target and twisting around, one foot up on the bench, gun straight out in front, gun at full 90 degree oblique position, head on shoulder, head off shoulder. No matter what form I twisted into, the front sight just seemed to wander up into position under the bull and the thing went off. I proved to myself just how much of the game is purely psychological.

When I took my NRA rifle instructor's certification, the NRA Councelor giving the class was Web Wright, who still had a couple of world records standing in 300 meter International Rifle at the time. He related a similar frame of mind to what I'd found with the air pistol: There seemed to be days nothing he did would get an X and days when he could just about throw the rifle in the dirt and have it go off and still make an X. The game really is mostly in your head.

Web had us go through the required reading of the principles of marksmanship in the NRA course materials, but he also pointed out a problem with them. For one thing, the number of "fundamental principles" had changed over the years when the course materials had been revised. One revision would have eight, another twelve, another ten or some other number. It seemed to Web that if something was truly fundamental, it wouldn't change. He told us that after years of contemplating changing techniques and equipment, he'd come to the conclusion that only two marksmanship fundamentals were constant and real:
  1. You align the weapon so the projectile will strike the desired point on the target.
  2. You keep it that way until after the projectile has cleared the weapon.
Everything else is optional and subject to modification and review. Stance, breathing, timing, sights, slings or other allowed gear for a particular discipline is really up to the shooter's needs and is good only if it helps achieve those two ends.

When we moved in '93 I set up a new airgun range in the new basement, but I got discouraged because my pistol scores didn't seem to keep up with what they once had been. It wasn't until a decade later when I bought a second gun on sale at OK Weber, the inexpensive Russian Baikal single-stroke pneumatic, that I discovered the problem was not entirely with me, but rather was with the tired old Feinwerkbau. I did some arithmetic and figured out that I had put about 35-40 thousand rounds through it without any major maintenance. When I got a chronograph with illuminated screens for indoor use, this was verified. Velocity, shot-to-shot, had an extreme spread of 120 fps as the Feinwerkbau warmed up, and almost 70 fps within any given group of ten. The springs and seals were shot out. The Baikal, on the other hand, had an extreme spread of only about 6 fps.

But by then my old practice habits were gone and my eyesight was nowhere near the 20/10 I'd had when I started. Other things were constantly in the way, too, such as working out of town much of the time, so I've not gotten back into the game as I would like to. Life keeps getting under foot, somehow. Maybe it's time for a third career? ;)
 
I've been itching to get into bullseye and had considered the LP50 for home training. It's not clear to me, though, whether one has to choose between a light AP or (relatively) heavy bullseye trigger, or whether you get both and can switch between the two. Without both triggers, it seems you'd have to choose between a 10m gun with unnecessary capacity or a bullseye home trainer with a trigger that'd handicap your 10m shooting.

Also, does the LP50 gives up any intrinsic accuracy get get multi-shot capacity?

For now, my Izzy works pretty well, grips notwithstanding. I've carved the grips a bit to smoothen the edges, but they're far from optimal.

There seemed to be days nothing he did would get an X and days when he could just about throw the rifle in the dirt and have it go off and still make an X. The game really is mostly in your head.

Yep - it ain't my Izzy's grips, but the thing between my ears that seems to need the most work right now. I've gone backwards the last few days, so I think I'll change my routine a bit so as to avoid hard wiring some bad mental habits.
 
yep.

Nick: I enjoy your posts. I had a chance to buy a model 65 years ago and didn't. I've regretted it since - such a classic piece. I suppose they are available still in the used market. The gun that my gal bought for me was/is a FWB C10 - a CO2 gun.
And yes, some days its clover leafs in the 10 ring and other days I'm scalloping the edges.
1. You align the weapon so the projectile will strike the desired point on the target.
2. You keep it that way until after the projectile has cleared the weapon.

Do that 60 times in a row and you can go to the Olympics. Doesn't seem like a big deal, does it?
Pete
 
Also, does the LP50 gives up any intrinsic accuracy get get multi-shot capacity?

Theoretically. But if so, the effect is minimal.

I've owned a LP 5, which is very similar to the 50, and still have a FWB 103, which is a SSP like your IZH. And I hadn't noticed any difference when comparing the accuracy of these.

But I'd advise trying a LP 50 before buying one. I'd never gotten comfortable w/ the grip angle, even when it was adjusted.

And you might give Pilkington Competition a call. They carry Steyrs, and sell the heavy trigger, so they can advise you on the interchangability of these. http://www.pilkguns.com/
 
I've been itching to get into bullseye and had considered the LP50 for home training. It's not clear to me, though, whether one has to choose between a light AP or (relatively) heavy bullseye trigger, or whether you get both and can switch between the two. Without both triggers, it seems you'd have to choose between a 10m gun with unnecessary capacity or a bullseye home trainer with a trigger that'd handicap your 10m shooting.

Also, does the LP50 gives up any intrinsic accuracy get get multi-shot capacity?

Because I was interested in using my LP50 pretty much exclusively as a training device for bullseye, I ordered it with the heavier trigger. You can buy both triggers and swap them out, but I don't know how much work and time is involved in doing that. Also, like most things Steyr, the second trigger isn't cheap ($245), and the basic gun is already north of $2K. Add a dot sight, pick up a couple of extra magazines, which are just small aluminum bars with 5 holes drilled in them (very carefully and precisely, I'm sure) and you can get depressingly close to $3K. Still, it's a beautiful piece of machinery.

Also, the LP50 trigger is not the same as the trigger on the single-shot LP10, which I understand is two-stage and has more adjustments. The just-announced LP50E will have the same electronic trigger as the LP10E (for only an additional $400 or so).

With regard to inherent accuracy (leaving the trigger out of the equation), all I can say is that my LP50 will quite easily put all the pellets through one not-very-ragged hole at 10m (with a good rest, a dot sight, and some careful shooting). Like every other match-quality gun I've ever shot, it's far more accurate than I will ever be. If it gives up something in comparison to the LP10, it would be the trigger - and that difference goes away with the electronic triggers. One thing to note is that it's apparently not legal to use repeaters in formal slow-fire competition, so there's a single-shot magazine available to take care of that (at extra cost, 'natch).

Casimer makes a good point about the grip angle - although you can adjust it both vertically and laterally, the gun uses a "dropped wrist" type of grip, which is very different from the more upright grips of the Walther GSPs that I use in bullseye competition and very, very different from the .45 grip angle. I actually like the dropped wrist, which for me seems more stable, so much so that I'm seriously considering changing over to Pardinis, which use something of the same angle, for my bullseye shooting.

And a big +1 for Pilkington, the epicenter of the high quality air gun universe. If there's anything that Scott P. can't tell you about air guns, you just don't need to know it. They carry all the Steyrs and sell the LP50 with a special machined barrel shroud that's all set up for optical sights, if that's of interest.
 
Darkangel,

Thanks. That C10 is a beauty. I've been periodically looking at it and a number of other makes, wondering what might be next toy?

I forgot to mention in my post an additional purpose behind putting up Web's two principles of marksmanship is that they explain why airgun practice helps bullseye shooting skills. The long barrel times the airguns have force you to hold and follow through, thus improving your ability with respect to the second principle, especially. Like looking up too fast after hitting a golf ball, failure to follow through on a shot usual commences just before the swing of the hammer is complete and the projectile has got fully clear of the muzzle. All those diagonally low impacts to the palm side of your shooting hand come from failure to avoid disturbing the gun until after the bullet is out. Airguns don't make you flinch and you can see the sights all the way through the discharge and spot your disturbances. They are a terrific trigger control trainer.
 
I shoot 10m competitively. Not too well - my personal best is 554/600 - but it's a great way to work on fundamentals at home.

Not to mention that while everybody else is whining about the price of ammo, I can buy 500 match grade pellets for $10.
 
I've had an IZH-46M for a few years now, and I love it. I do feel it's made me a much better shooter overall, and I think Unclenick's point about follow-through and trigger control is a huge part of that. (I like those two principles of marksmanship a lot, too -- hadn't come across that before. :))

If my eyesight were better, I'd love to try 10-meter competition, but at 50-something, my eyes just aren't what they used to be... maybe we need an online league for, er, grown-ups?
 
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