Hello folks. I'm a long time TFL guy and quite active in the handloading and reloading area, rolling my own for three decades.
There are many places on the 'net where I can read & learn, but TFL is where I've called home for like 10+ years. I'd like to list all my questions in enumerated form and invite anyone and everyone to throw out their answers, opinions, snarky remarks and insults , well wishes or funny experiences that are even mildly related to the subject.
The preamble!
I cannot tell you guys a lie, I won't start with one and I won't be "guilty by omission." The absolute truth is that I continue to have no interest in muzzle loaders or black powder shooting. However, I grabbed a low-buck, in-line muzzle loader at the gun show yesterday... I bought it because it seemed irrationally low in price and my plan is to learn how to operate it safely and effectively so that I can give it to my Fiance's son who will be 17 in October. His experience with muzzle loaders is equal with mine, basically none. So I'm here to lay down specific questions, hope for specific answers and also a myriad of other opinions and tips and answers and such.
The purpose!
Bought the rifle so that the young man and I can test it, sight it in, and then he can go hunt deer with it. He's taken three deer so far, one each by shotgun, crossbow and compound bow, and we've eaten them for multiple dinners! I myself have never hunted deer and unlikely to do so until my retirement years if at all. As to this rifle, I am NOT afraid to buy the right bits and stuffs to make it work, but I have less than no interest whatsoever in upgrading, buying another, branching out, adding more muzzle loaders, etc etc etc. I am way more than knee deep in my handguns and handloading and have no time nor interest in this side hobby -- except to do this properly, safely, and get the step son (to be) out there and hunting with it.
The hardware!
Here's where you folks can make fun of me and I won't take offense unless you get personal and obnoxious. It is a CVA Eclipse Magnum .50cal, 1-28" twist. It also says BPI, Made in Spain. It makes use of a 209 shotshell primer and apparently, the "bolt" simply slam-fires the primer as a trigger squeeze drops the whole spring loaded bolt on to the seated primer and there is no extractor, you need to fingernail pluck the used primer out of it. Condition of this rig seems very nearly new, if it was used at all, it was kept in fine condition and the bore is sparkling clean/new looking. It has fiber optic iron sights (errr, maybe plastic sights) and it has a Tasco scope mounted to it the at least seems solid and gives a good view, and the rings allow use of the irons, so that's cool for short range. It came with it's rod, the forward end of which looks like a cleaning jag to me, the end you stuff in to the rifle has an inside threaded end, but no little attachments are available.
It also came with...
A blister pack of Speer "Sabots", these are green sabots with what appear to be pistol bullets in them, marked .50 to .44 cal, 270gr GDSP. No powder came with it, I believe that the pellets are the best way for a young man to run this rig, but after looking at prices at the gun store yesterday, I could definitely buy those for him, but if it were me shooting this for any reason, I couldn't stomach the price difference between one can of Triple-7 and the price on the pellets, WOW.
And finally... the questions...at long last.
In closing...
I appreciate anyone who has read this far, even the guys who merely skimmed it. I consider this my attempt to make a withdrawal on the TFL account that I feel I've made a decent share of deposits in to. I figure that I can run in to at least a couple smokepole guys that are as passionate about making sure a new guy gets off on the right foot as I have tried to be with new metallic handloaders over many years.
For what it's worth... I paid $70 for this CVA rig with the scope on it and a pack of ten of the 50-to-44 270 Gold Dots. $70 isn't even real money. If the step son (to be) has even one good outing with this and brings home a deer, I think I would call that money extremely well spent. Maybe a single good hunt with this makes a future hunter that really gets in to muzzle loaders down the road!
Thanks again and I hope I get buried in replies!
There are many places on the 'net where I can read & learn, but TFL is where I've called home for like 10+ years. I'd like to list all my questions in enumerated form and invite anyone and everyone to throw out their answers, opinions, snarky remarks and insults , well wishes or funny experiences that are even mildly related to the subject.
The preamble!
I cannot tell you guys a lie, I won't start with one and I won't be "guilty by omission." The absolute truth is that I continue to have no interest in muzzle loaders or black powder shooting. However, I grabbed a low-buck, in-line muzzle loader at the gun show yesterday... I bought it because it seemed irrationally low in price and my plan is to learn how to operate it safely and effectively so that I can give it to my Fiance's son who will be 17 in October. His experience with muzzle loaders is equal with mine, basically none. So I'm here to lay down specific questions, hope for specific answers and also a myriad of other opinions and tips and answers and such.
The purpose!
Bought the rifle so that the young man and I can test it, sight it in, and then he can go hunt deer with it. He's taken three deer so far, one each by shotgun, crossbow and compound bow, and we've eaten them for multiple dinners! I myself have never hunted deer and unlikely to do so until my retirement years if at all. As to this rifle, I am NOT afraid to buy the right bits and stuffs to make it work, but I have less than no interest whatsoever in upgrading, buying another, branching out, adding more muzzle loaders, etc etc etc. I am way more than knee deep in my handguns and handloading and have no time nor interest in this side hobby -- except to do this properly, safely, and get the step son (to be) out there and hunting with it.
The hardware!
Here's where you folks can make fun of me and I won't take offense unless you get personal and obnoxious. It is a CVA Eclipse Magnum .50cal, 1-28" twist. It also says BPI, Made in Spain. It makes use of a 209 shotshell primer and apparently, the "bolt" simply slam-fires the primer as a trigger squeeze drops the whole spring loaded bolt on to the seated primer and there is no extractor, you need to fingernail pluck the used primer out of it. Condition of this rig seems very nearly new, if it was used at all, it was kept in fine condition and the bore is sparkling clean/new looking. It has fiber optic iron sights (errr, maybe plastic sights) and it has a Tasco scope mounted to it the at least seems solid and gives a good view, and the rings allow use of the irons, so that's cool for short range. It came with it's rod, the forward end of which looks like a cleaning jag to me, the end you stuff in to the rifle has an inside threaded end, but no little attachments are available.
It also came with...
A blister pack of Speer "Sabots", these are green sabots with what appear to be pistol bullets in them, marked .50 to .44 cal, 270gr GDSP. No powder came with it, I believe that the pellets are the best way for a young man to run this rig, but after looking at prices at the gun store yesterday, I could definitely buy those for him, but if it were me shooting this for any reason, I couldn't stomach the price difference between one can of Triple-7 and the price on the pellets, WOW.
And finally... the questions...at long last.
- Don't I need a short rod with a wooden ball on it to get the projectile started down the first few inches of the muzzle? I can't do that with the long rod... I think I need to go buy at least that part. What else is a must? I don't need grease or patches if I am not using round lead balls, correct? Do I need some kind of a threaded screw end to pull an unfired but seated bullet out of here it it doesn't shoot because someone forgot a powder charge, or is it simply easier to remove the breech plug and push it through?
- What shall we shoot out of this rig? Obviously, I have ten free of the 50 to 44 Gold Dots in green sabots, so if those are appropriate for deer (package says absolutely) then I am fine to start with these ten for function and sight in, and I am more likely to buy a component box of 270gr .429" GDSP and some loose green 50 to 44 cal sabots. That is... unless you good folks believe that these are a royally over-expensive way to go and would suggest something completely different, which I would welcome.
- What shall power these projectile, or the alternate projectiles that you suggest? I will say that genuine black powder is not in the running, as I don't know where to get it and I don't want the hassles associated with it. Triple-7 seems to be the quick and easy answer, and if it's something that cleans up easy and doesn't promote rust (or bonus, resists rust!) then I'm liking that. Where does Pyrodex and Goex fit in to this? Are there are brands or types worth discussing or is Triple-7 what everyone uses except the folks that wish to be period-correct?
- And of course... the pellets versus the granules. I might have to bite the bullet and simply go pellets, just to keep it all simple and safe for a younger man out in the field by himself. If that means I need to pay the far higher cost of pellets, so be it. And now here is the MOST basic question yet... how many pellets for this 50-to-44 270gr slug load? I thought I had seen on some packaging somewhere that a 100gr charge is appropriate... I have absolutely no idea whatsoever.
- Related to the question above... is the gun being marked "magnum" mean that it is designed and/or capable of a higher charge than earlier established .50cal muzzle loaders?
- I have a supply of simple CCI 209 primers that I used way way back in the late 1980's for 20-guage skeet, I've stored them properly even though I haven't loaded shotshell since 1990. I have shot a bunch of my old 20ga from 1990 and haven't had one problem, and I've tried one primer in this new to me rifle and it went off with no hitch. Obviously, I'd love it if these primers are appropriate for what we are doing here. What say ye?
- What kind of accuracy might I expect using the projectiles and powder you suggest, with this low-buck rig I have? Sight in at 50 yards? 3-inches at 50 yards asking too much? This young man is an ethical hunter and he won't be taking pot shots at silly distances.
- Finally (until I think of more...), how do I clean this? Is it really true that my favorite Hoppe's#9 isn't what I need, you guys really want me to use hot water or glass cleaner or, yikes... I'm so very much a smokeless cartridge guy. Hahaha... I don't want it to rust or corrode.
In closing...
I appreciate anyone who has read this far, even the guys who merely skimmed it. I consider this my attempt to make a withdrawal on the TFL account that I feel I've made a decent share of deposits in to. I figure that I can run in to at least a couple smokepole guys that are as passionate about making sure a new guy gets off on the right foot as I have tried to be with new metallic handloaders over many years.
For what it's worth... I paid $70 for this CVA rig with the scope on it and a pack of ten of the 50-to-44 270 Gold Dots. $70 isn't even real money. If the step son (to be) has even one good outing with this and brings home a deer, I think I would call that money extremely well spent. Maybe a single good hunt with this makes a future hunter that really gets in to muzzle loaders down the road!
Thanks again and I hope I get buried in replies!